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Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by captainmuon on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:35AM (#14504357)
Is somebody working on identifying these modern watermarks? A start would be to print out test pages and compare high resolution scans. Maybe also multiple printouts from the same printer to see what the natural variation is, and if there is a timestamp component.

I would start, but I'm currently not around a printer...

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by RegW on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @07:27AM (#14505308)
I suppose the approach is to create a machine learning dataset that maps hi-res scans of sample documents to the printers that produced them. If the resulting classifier can accurately id the printer, you have probably found a watermark, but it might just be natural variations in the manufacturing.
Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by Paul-ish on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:10PM (#14508048)
The difficulty in this approach is that you have an extremely large number of classes. Each printer is its own class. Typically, as the number of classes goes up, accuracy goes done. That isn't to say it isn't possible, but it would require a lot of custom hacks to any learning algorithm.

Also to convince anyone that it works, you would need to test it out on an extremely large number of printers, including ones of the same model. In practice that could be expensive.

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by kpil on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:33PM (#14508255)
Nah, it's not feasible to know the printer model if you want to identify a laserprinted dollar.

A few variants at most.

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by Heliosmaster on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @08:02AM (#14505531)
still, if the result is a "fingerprint" of a printer, it'd be interesting to know, because it can be used by law enforcement too
Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:30AM (#14504803)
Surely we can skip the paper stage and hookup the motors used for head positioning control to a rig - either reading through rotary measure or preferably reading the signal to the motors directly.

Print the same page, compare the signals sent to the motors? Won't that be a more easily/accurately measure proxy for what's actually being printed. One might need the timing data for the jets on an inkjet too, etc.

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by dom0 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:46AM (#14504857)
No printer controls their motors with >600 dpi resolution. Inkjet printers have print heads with many nozzles; the motors do the rough positioning / slide the head over the paper, the nozzles do the hard work. In laser printers a motor only moves the paper along (all rollers are either free-running or synchronized by gears).

So for an inkjet you'd have to look at the nozzle timing, which might be difficult depending on how integrated the drivers are (e.g. if they're a custom chip on a flexprint behind the heads... uhm...). For a laser printer you'd have to look at the laser modulation signal. That should be much easier, bugs have done that before.

Reverse engineering the firmware might be easier... on the other hand, the firmware is probably bolted shut rather well — the printer manufacturers cartridge DRM is in there somewhere.

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @08:39AM (#14505813)
I was assuming the nozzles has some sort of actuator that approximates to the term "motor" - I think you're either driving a tiny heater, or piezo, or a charge deflector plate in inkjet printing? That presumably is where the jitter would physically manifest; so you'd look at the input signal to those elements?

Reversing the firmware though, good call.

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by dithering on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:30AM (#14505037)
Maybe "just after the electronics, but before the print heads/motors" is the appropriate place to probe. It might be more work than anyone's prepared to put in (and of questionable utility), but you could emulate the motors and heads, and generate an image of what would have been printed.
Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by amelius on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @04:06AM (#14504471)
Shouldn't we be able to control a printer on the pixel (dither) level in the first place?
Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by leni536 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @04:32AM (#14504580)
This would be nice for other reasons too. There can be better halftoning algorithms to the typical pattern based halftoning of laser printers. It's hard to calibrate though, printers don't print "pixels". They print dots that typically overlap a lot, DPI for printers is the resolution for positioning the dots, not the size of the dots.
Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by kpil on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:37PM (#14508284)
I think that ALL algorithms are better than the default halftone algorithms.

I think it's possible to send saturated pixels using PCL, and tell the printer to disable half-toning. It requires that a full page fits in memory, which isn't much (512MB) but typically more than the default.

For some reasons all printers use really vintage memory, so 512MB extra memory is crazy-expensive.

Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by verytrivial on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @04:37AM (#14504600)
Even if we are able to, if the default is to divulge the printer ID via a dithering pattern either at the driver or machine level when given a blob of image data, I think this problem becomes similar to "Can't we all just encrypt our email?" i.e. largely academic.
Re:List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots by lucideer on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:15AM (#14504979)
We're currently in a situation where we don't even really fully know which are doing it or exactly how, so it would be many giant leaps in the right direction at least.

It would likely make identifying tracking marks and algorithms a lot easier.