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Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:41PM (#14498633)
This is exactly what Facebook should be. An augmented agent to help us be more helpful and empathetic to friends and family.

I'm sorry for your loss. Your uncle sounds like a great human being.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by chrischen on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:36PM (#14499181)
But what it really is an advertising platform. I mean if Facebook charged for usage then I'd pay for it.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by samstave on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:13PM (#14500242)
That's pretty much what FB and the government use it for...
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by blazespin on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:43PM (#14499264)
Yeah, fb should kill this open source startup! ;p Seriously, though, i think it would really creep people out if fb had a feature to take notes about what you talked with people who aren't even joined up.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by chenster on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:18PM (#14502327)
But not one uses FB. I got friends who are on Line and WeChat exclusively. Some part of the world don't have access to FB.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by loco5niner on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:24PM (#14508170)
"Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded" - anonymous, but often attributed to Yogi Berra
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by hashkb on Thursday June 08, 2017 @11:07AM (#14514675)
Because it gets late early?
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by somidscr21 on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:39AM (#14512360)
1.28 billion daily active users on average for March 2017 [https://newsroom.fb.com/company-info/]

would greatly disagree with your statement. It may not be the answer for everyone, but it could be that tool for a large chunk of the world's population.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by kinkrtyavimoodh on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:19PM (#14499002)
This is what a lot of us who don't hate Zuck's guts actually do use FB for.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by kbenson on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:39PM (#14499231)
It's not that I hate Zuckerberg that I find it hard to use Facebook, but that I trust them less than the other super-presences outs there (justified or not), and I dislike how it changes my perceptions of some of my friends. The constant posting of inane shit starts to look less like keeping in touch and more like an addiction to my eyes. I still like those people, and enjoy their company, but being constantly exposed to their posts feels like being in their living room as they crack open that 8 AM beer after waking up. It gets uncomfortable, but it's also not something I'm sure it's my place to butt into, since to this point it appears mostly harmless.

It is the best tool to keep in contact we currently have though, so I do pop in every week or two to check on notifications. The times I go longer I end up missing events friends have put together and not notified in other ways about, so I try to remember to check in fairly regularly.

I only hope they don't swing their attention towards those of us that shun the feed any time soon, and try to find a way to tweak our reward response for that as well (or at least in a more effective way. I'm sure they've put at least some attention to it).

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by WorldMaker on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @02:13PM (#14499596)
I still sometimes wonder if anyone else has a good name for what Facebook lost somewhere in the switch between the much more ephemeral "Status" system of 2004's TheFacebook to today's "Posts" and their littered, ad-filled home the "News Feed".

Even the "Notes" system in the middle of the transition was more "opt in" than firehose and a bit more rare and curated by the fewer users using it.

There is a spirit to the old systems lost to the new ones that I can't quite name. In the rush to increase communication overall, and build an addictive platform that people feel a need to check often, perhaps too much of the signal has been drowned out in noise. But that doesn't feel a strong description either because the signals become so different, too.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by losteric on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:52PM (#14500675)
Separation of responsibilities?

Statuses were great as a brief update of a friend's change in their state of mind. I could follow up as I saw fit, often just keeping it in mind for the next time we met up.

Posts and news is just a steady steam of information... repeated opinions, content that forms their opinion, attempts at converting others, or minor events that would have been interesting to talk about but bland now that I've seen the highlights online... Often in impersonal monologue form, or equally impersonal many-to-many chat.

Those features gutted the middle of the friend spectrum, their UX no longer aligns with natural social patterns. Humans talk more and about different things as we become closer friend's, slowly acclimating to each other. Facebook is optimized for tight social groups. News posts are useful for my inner group, but I had to unfriend most of my more nebulous connections because their updates were basically spam in the context of my life.

Facebook's features no doubt provides better revenue from ads/targeted spam for shareholders, but they've lost what I found useful for networking and developing new relations. If anything, their new features are impediments.

At this point, I've completely dropped Facebook in favor of email and chat (mix of apps)... It's a better experience than Facebook news and posts, obvious data privacy wins, and my friends and I can share higher resolution pictures without coupling to any specific platform. I haven't found a good alternative for networking, aside from LinkedIn (okish) and plain ol' phone calls/sms/in-store meetups. Maybe that's the best there is.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by WorldMaker on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:40PM (#14502106)
I think this gets close to the meat of it, yes. TheFacebook in 2004 was still something closer to its yearbook metaphor: here's the people I met this year in college and here's what they wrote on my yearbook that year.

I guess the real emblematic touch point of the change over the years is much more from each person's "Wall" being the important push hubs of conversations to the "Wall" being subsumed by the modern "Timeline" and relegated to an annual flurry of birthday well-wishers and not much else.

That opt-in push mentality versus opt-out pull mentality is quite different: I'm going to go post this cool thing on my friend's wall BECAME I'm going to post this cool thing and maybe all of my friends might see it in their news feeds (if the algorithms deem it maybe worthy and my friends haven't muted me).

Maybe that's why "Events" still seems like one of the bright spots in Facebook? "Events" for the most part still retains a lot of an "opt-in push mentality"; for the most part you still create an event and explicitly invite friends to it. Certainly the News Feed has the pull sort of events and the "I'm Interested" interest pull buttons, but the events I really care about still follow that classic push model, and probably always will...

In TheFacebook we delegated responsibility to post things we cared about to our Walls to our friends. In Facebook we find that responsibility to curate the things we care about in our News Feeds has been delegated to algorithms and advertisers somewhat beyond our control.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by nitemice on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:33PM (#14503063)
I think the new equivalent of "I'm going to go post this cool thing on my friend's wall" is "I'm going to send this to my friend on Messenger", although that can be borderline too once you start talking about groups with more than two people.

I agree Events is the highlight of Facebook these days. Although, it has been steadily corroded as well, and FB Messenger's Plans has muddied the waters a fair chunk.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by derefr on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:12PM (#14500229)
Weird programming analogy that works for me: it went from being a library to being a framework. For your life.

As in, Facebook used to expect you to have to come and poll it. There was information there about the current state of things, and that information was replaced when people updated their status et al. You had to look, and look often, if you wanted to keep up. It was addictive, in both the good and bad senses of that word.

Today's Facebook is active, making your interaction with it passive; it keeps up to date on things for you, and notifies you when it thinks you would be interested in knowing something. You're the delegate module. You don't talk to it; it talks to you. You never actually have to check it or look at it.

Actually, for another analogy: today's Facebook is almost like a secretary. (It'd be one for real if it could guess your intentions well-enough to automatically accept/reject event invitations.) Like a secretary, there's no reason to go bother them. Nothing useful to be gained by polling. Zero addiction potential.

What's popular these days? Snapchat. Guess why?

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by artur_makly on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:38PM (#14502493)
enlighten me...
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by thecrazyone on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:39AM (#14504373)
`derefr` might've implied snapchat is addictive because you _have_ to poll it constantly like once everyday
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by kinkrtyavimoodh on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:09PM (#14500199)
I wonder if you have a slightly over-romanticized view of the old FB. I got on FB sometime in 2007 and for a few years it was overrun with quizzes and games and such spam. It was a different kind of spam from ad-spam but today's FB seems much more streamlined in many senses.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by WorldMaker on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:32PM (#14500446)
2004 when I first joined was a year or so before a lot of the quizzes and games and such spam. At the time the "spam" was a large collection of "Groups" that had silly in-joke names specific to your College/University. That time "Groups" were more like a list of hobbies than the "Groups" of today. "Photos" also didn't show up until a few months after I first joined.

I'm not saying we should romanticize the incomplete, under-developed TheFacebook of 2004, but only that the things that made it viral on college campuses in 2004 are very different from those that made it viral among the masses in 2014. I'm not sure which one is better or worse, it's definitely complicated. But there's definitely that feeling that Facebook is not TheFacebook any more. Not just branding, but in... spirit, maybe? Like I said there's word missing that I'm curious to find.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by cacarr on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:42PM (#14501657)
"Fun"?

Facebook was fun in 2005. Now it's just ... addictive.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by david-cako on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:51PM (#14502180)
It's hard for me to think of it as "addictive". Every time I use it, I end up scrolling briefly through about 20 different 10 QUICK TIPS, YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT THIS DOLPHIN DID, and RECIPES MADE TO LOOK QUICKER THAN THEY ARE before I leave.

Facebook was much more engaging when I actually saw words and images coming out of people who I know or once knew.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by toomanybeersies on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:49PM (#14502568)
I use Facebook as my primary tool to keep in touch with friends, but at some point it's become almost unusable for it.

My main issue is people tagging each other in those "Tag a mate who X" or "@g has to X" shitposts. It just clutters my newsfeed with useless shit.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by blazespin on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:47PM (#14499302)
Yeah, I don't get that. I see some people who like to reflect their interests online but I don't consider it inane or addiction. You have a hobby, why not share it online?
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by wccrawford on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @02:46PM (#14499941)
It becomes a problem when you've got people who are incredibly single-minded about something.

I don't mind my coworker's weekly posts about car stuff at all, even though I have no interest whatsoever. And when he posts some progress on some car repair he's doing, I'm glad to see he's doing something he loves.

But when my SJW friend posts yet another ridiculous over-the-top post about how all X are X, and somehow thinks this means they aren't be prejudiced themselves, it's hard to handle. You can't tell them anything, either, because there's something different about you that makes them think you're unable to empathize with them, or understand what they're going through.

Some of them are so incredibly obviously wrong, too. Like: All cops are corrupt.

This is a person who is pretty fun to be around and hosts parties that are fun. In person, they aren't so overbearing about this stuff. But online? They're a monster who can't be corrected or even debated with. If you do, you're X and can't understand.

In short, I think you're fortunate not to have anyone single-minded like this on your Facebook friends list. The only real solution is to just unfollow them, which is horrible because you then miss the posts from them that you actually want to see.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by derefr on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:17PM (#14500275)
I have a slowly-brewing notion that it will eventually be a matter of etiquette, to ensure that any content your produce is properly tagged such that people can treat you as a subset of yourself. Eventually—hopefully—it will be seen as incredibly uncouth to intermingle personal, political, and pastime content into one feed with no ability to re-separate them.

But that time is, sadly, not today. Until then, building feed-readers with topic-analysis auto-tagging might help.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by NoGravitas on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:44PM (#14508350)
One thing I've been noticing about Mastodon[0] is that it is incredibly easy to segregate your personal, political, and pastime posts, trivially by having multiple sites in multiple browser tabs, but even better with a client that supports multiple accounts. You can tie your different identities together through your profile, and import/export your subscription lists between instances. And everyone who follows you can follow only those of your identities that they are interested in.

[0]: https://joinmastodon.org/

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by blazespin on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @02:53PM (#14500032)
Hmm, well I admit I do hide posts from a few of my friends. It's pretty easy, you know.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by kbenson on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:58PM (#14499421)
I don't think there's anything wrong with people posting about their hobbies, or what's up in their lives, even multiple times a day.

I have people that post multiple times every hour. Sometimes 8-10 times an hour for short periods. Generally it looks like reposting everything they read. They become a one person news aggregator, if by "news" we mean Facebook posts tailored for meme propagation (which means a good portion of them range from misleading to blatantly false).

I don't really use my feed, so I'm not bothered by the posts being in my feed for my own sake. I'm just a bit worried that they've become obsessed with Facebook attention to an unhealthy degree.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by AndrewUnmuted on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:36PM (#14501076)
That's what you think you'd LIKE to use FB for. But remember, the medium is the message. You can't escape the interactive narrow mindedness of FB because it is inherent to the design of the overall product.

In reality, you use FB to have your data packaged up and sold to advertisers, brands, and government agencies. You're the product, not the customer.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by robbiep on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:10PM (#14502666)
Having everyone watch all your interactions with your nearest and dearest creeps me the fuck out. I'm more private than that
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by hoffs on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:03AM (#14504701)
Yeah, but if you have 10 or more friends your 'wall' gets littered with all kinds of useless information. Unless you unfollow and explicitly tell to not to show any of their likes and other random information.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by bryondowd on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @02:29PM (#14508723)
I do exactly this and have no problem with FB. I only friend people I actually know and care to have interactions with, and I kick anyone who's posts are overall more worth my time than not off my feed. This means my feed is actually worth scrolling through (and takes maybe 10 minutes every couple days to get through) and if I want to see what's going on with some particular person who isn't on my feed, I can go to their page and skim through.

I don't get all the hate on FB. Sure, the default is mess, but that's what most people want, and if it's not what you want, there are means to control it and still have a powerful communication tool. A tool is what you make of it, and it's really not hard to make use of FB in a sane way.

Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by coldtea on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:08AM (#14504952)
Unless FB facilitates this use (which it doesn't -- back in the day, maybe) then whether one hate's Zuck's guts or not is not really relevant.
Re:Show HN: Monica, an open-source CRM to manage friends and... by Semaphor on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:38AM (#14504826)
I agree, but they do make it harder to use for anything but posting memes every year.