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Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by SirLJ on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:04AM (#14481000)
If we could terraform, we should do it right away, humanity is one meteorite strike away from extinction... the universe is a harsh place and we have to hedge our bets to survive and thrive...
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by Santosh83 on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:19AM (#14481105)
There's no rational need to survive as a species. An individual protecting its life is a different matter, but what's the point in struggling so hard to survive as a species? What is it that we hope to achieve in the end?
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by the8472 on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:52AM (#14481276)
Most matter in the universe is dead. So even if we assume that we can't come up with anything interesting and worthy achieving right now we can still transform dead matter into thinking matter that might eventually come up with something.

At worst you would be wasting dead matter on a useless endeavor while ideally you discover more interesting things down the road. Seems like a decent tradeoff.

Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by Retra on Sunday June 04, 2017 @11:50AM (#14482116)
A species includes its individuals. If the species dies, all of the individuals are also dead.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by hyperpallium on Sunday June 04, 2017 @11:43AM (#14482081)
We identify as a group - a tribe. In recent millenia, it's worked out well for individuals to identify with even larger groups. Today, it's rational to identify globally, for the benefits of trade, collaborative technological development and peace. There may well be some evolutionary pressure towards this. (Yes, there's reward for defection, but collaboration works even better).

Granted, "global" isn't the same as "species" - but in practice, and forever there is communication between members, they are identical (have the same referent).

Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by jpttsn on Sunday June 04, 2017 @12:36PM (#14482285)
It's pretty circular to give group-level reasons for why individuals should "identify globally."
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by SimbaOnSteroids on Sunday June 04, 2017 @11:31AM (#14482029)
We're biological life forms, it's literally our prime directive. Besides that though is there a rational reason to do anything? Ultimately the universe doesn't care so why bother?
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by monochromatic on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:51AM (#14481273)
If the species dies, all of my potential descendants die. I have genes that have evolved to prevent such an occurrence.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by Bakary on Sunday June 04, 2017 @11:08AM (#14481927)
Genes don't evolve according to a purpose, they simply happened to last until the current point in time.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by jpttsn on Sunday June 04, 2017 @12:39PM (#14482301)
People have genes for all sorts of things, from over-eating to cheating on their spouse.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by monochromatic on Sunday June 04, 2017 @03:53PM (#14483179)
And?
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by jpttsn on Monday June 05, 2017 @08:14AM (#14487030)
Rational decision-making involves second guessing or even countering your genetic programming.

The "my genes made me do it" argument is no less flawed in a discussion about terraforming than one about what to order at McDonald's.

Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by calcifer on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:21AM (#14481128)
> humanity is one meteorite strike away from extinction

According to NASA [0] that's a once in a million year sort of event which, given how behaviourally modern [1] humans have only existed for about 50000 years, is nothing more than a strawman for terraforming.

[0] https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/back2.html

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity

Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by freehunter on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:47AM (#14481252)
You do realize that just because its called a one in a million event doesn't actually mean it has to happen every million years, and it doesn't have to wait a million years, right? A one in a million event could happen after 50,000 years, it just means on average it's expected to happen every million years.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by calcifer on Sunday June 04, 2017 @10:32AM (#14481769)
So? How does that add any urgency to our current situation on earth?
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by jbooth on Sunday June 04, 2017 @11:26AM (#14482005)
I bought a condo on a 100-year flood plain back in the day.

Had 2 100-year floods, the first 2 springs I owned it.

Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by freehunter on Sunday June 04, 2017 @04:15PM (#14483270)
A million year asteroid could hit almost literally at any moment.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by calcifer on Sunday June 04, 2017 @04:57PM (#14483458)
Yeah, not really. With the current state of various spaceguard projects working on mapping NEOs (near-Earth objects), the estimated "heads up time" for an extinction level asteroid impact is on the order of decades. The smaller the object, the less notice we get, but the risk also decreases dramatically.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by Pinckney on Sunday June 04, 2017 @11:40AM (#14482065)
Earth stays far, far more hospitable than Mars even after absolutely colossal asteroid impacts.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by tim333 on Sunday June 04, 2017 @01:21PM (#14482463)
It may be easier to set up meteorite protection than to terraform. NASA's already on the job http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/13/world/nasa-planetary-defen...
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by andai on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:17AM (#14481091)
That's a good point and something the article doesn't mention: creating a stable colony off planet effectively cuts in half our risk of extinction due to impacts, supervolcanoes / god knows what horrors.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by gehwartzen on Sunday June 04, 2017 @10:47PM (#14484977)
What if the other colony evolves into something other than humans, the two groups becoming distinct species? Will it have been a waste?
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by monochromatic on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:55AM (#14481301)
It does a lot better than cutting it in half.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by andai on Sunday June 04, 2017 @05:19PM (#14483560)
Oh right. The chance of two simultaneous catastrophic events is ... the chance of one multiplied by itself, not by two!
[dead]
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by monochromatic on Sunday June 04, 2017 @08:52AM (#14481277)
Can you not
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by bamboozled on Sunday June 04, 2017 @02:14PM (#14482703)
How is the "Universe a harsh place" exactly?

It provides us everything.

Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by Bakary on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:57AM (#14488537)
It's harsh in the sense that not only is there a tiny amount of it that can be safely occupied by humans, but also that the sliver we do have can be easily wiped out by random events, and will be inevitably destroyed in a few million years.
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by bamboozled on Monday June 05, 2017 @07:15PM (#14493176)
Maybe it takes all that perceived harshness to produce something special?
Re:The Argument Against Terraforming Mars (2016) by Bakary on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @11:57AM (#14498193)
Your earlier comment got me thinking a little more. It's hard to disagree with your logic: since we are there and able to talk about it, that makes the Universe already rather compassionate. In fact, there is no other place to compare its possible harshness to.

However, it's a bit like a parent abusing their child. The kid owes everything it has to their progenitor, but it's questionable whether their existence is worth something to begin with. Even without a frame of reference, I believe you can make the judgment that something is in fact harsh. The very fact that we can conceive of asking this question makes it a possibility. In an easier world we might not even consider it at all.