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Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by quickben on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @08:29PM (#14449681)
Add to that list:

- unblockable advertising

- stronger DRM

- Bitcoin mining that regular user can't detect

- etc..

It will be good and bad, but, more bad than good.

We could choose not to run .exe .bat and the rest

So far, webassbly doesn't look optional.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by pcwalton on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:20PM (#14450045)
> - unblockable advertising

Ad blockers primarily look at domains, so blocking will continue to be possible at the request level. They aren't interpreting or parsing JS to begin with.

> - stronger DRM

If sites were going to ship Web Assembly-based DRM, they would already be shipping Web Assembly along with the Emterpreter. Remember that wasm has a polyfill already. I haven't seen that happening, so I see no reason to believe it'll happen in the future.

> - Bitcoin mining that regular user can't detect

A regular user certainly would notice the 100% CPU consumption. And anyway, bitcoin mining in a WebGL shader would be more profitable than anything wasm-based.

Moreover, though, surreptitious bitcoin mining on consumer PCs would be ludicrously unprofitable no matter what. Here a Stack Overflow answer from last year that calculates how much a site with 2M daily visitors would make if they could all somehow run the fastest C implementation [1]. It was less than 50 cents a day back then, and in the meantime the hash rate has grown by nearly an order of magnitude [2]. Good luck.

[1]: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/42413

[2]: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=2years

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by captainmuon on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @11:05PM (#14450166)
You are right, but replace Bitcoin with the latest Fadcoin and it might get lucrative again.

One cool idea that is also gaining traction is in-browser proof of work to prevent DDOS attacks. Basically you have to perform a lengthy computation to get past the (fast, ultra-high bandwidth) firewall. Doesn't slow down the individual user much, but makes an attack much more difficult. I could imagine people using malicious JS to get these proof-of-work tokens.

But yeah, computing power in the cloud has become fairly cheap, it's really hard to see how criminals could benefit from secretly serving WebAssembly to people.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by ehnto on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:28PM (#14450072)
I doubt a regular user would notice 100% CPU usage and even less certain that they would know what to do about it or what was causing it. Most OSes operate chrome just fine when another process is asking for 100% as well.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by bas on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:42PM (#14450109)
Their fans running at max (or a very warm device) would let them know. This has been the experience among the non/less-technical users in my company.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by aluhut on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @08:19AM (#14451862)
You must have been working with at least quite young people or something. My experience goes the other way. I've seen people who bought a new computer because their fans were running at max and the reason for that was that they were full with dust and dog hair.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by BenjiWiebe on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @11:04AM (#14453063)
I "fixed" someone's computer that would regularly crash a few minutes after starting it by vacuuming the dust out. :)
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by aluhut on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @03:54PM (#14455393)
Pure magic!
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by ehnto on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @12:03AM (#14450343)
Right, they might notice it, but why would they care? They don't know that they should care, it is just a computer being a computer and it probably spins up the fans for other tasks too. They would be right to not care unless told otherwise, sys ops isn't their job.

I think it would be smart to educate people as part of a regular security briefing for non technical staff though. But if it's something that high of concern to your company maybe an automated CPU usage monitor could alert the team to anomalies.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by spc476 on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @12:39AM (#14450453)
They would care when their laptop shuts down. [1]

[1] I was running a test today when the program being tested ran into a very tight loop and the fan really kicked in. I was curious if it would finish and let it run for several minutes until all went quiet and the screen went dark. It had shutdown to prevent heat damage.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by witty_username on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @12:59AM (#14450507)
That means the fans need to be cleaned of dust.

A laptop overheating from few minutes of 100% CPU is not normal.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by thegreatpl on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @04:24AM (#14451070)
Unless it is a really crappy laptop.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by Houshalter on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @02:36AM (#14450760)
Does battery usage not matter?
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by ehnto on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @04:19AM (#14451053)
Not for every device. Desktops aren't obsolete, some laptops never leave their desk and Chrome is a target for WebAssembly.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by flukus on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @03:41AM (#14450966)
Regular users do notice things like that, they just can't articulate it. "I think my computers getting old" and "I think I have a virus" are common ways of trying to explain things like this.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by Ajedi32 on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @09:59PM (#14449976)
I'm not sure where you're getting any of this from.

First, I don't see why you think WASM-based ads will be any less blockable than JS already is.

Stronger DRM on the web [is already a thing][1], but that has nothing to do with WASM.

Bitcoin mining on the web is already possible with JS and so far that hasn't been an issue. If it does start becoming a widespread problem though, browsers will start taking steps to combat it, like they [already have][2] for pages that needlessly consume CPU in the background.

[1]: https://www.w3.org/TR/encrypted-media/

[2]: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/03/background...

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by 3131s on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @11:02PM (#14450155)
> Bitcoin mining that regular user can't detect

That's actually a great idea for funding content creation online. If a site is open source, then it would even be possible to prove that only a reasonable share of the client's resources are being utilized. I'd take that funding model over the advertising-driven model that exists now.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by quadrupleslap on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @05:44AM (#14451325)
That's actually pretty clever, but wouldn't the resource usage be insane?
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by mintplant on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @09:23PM (#14449867)
> - unblockable advertising

I don't see how this necessarily follows from WASM.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by drdaeman on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:06PM (#14450000)
WASM is aiming to be fast enough to actually be capable of running a rendering engine. No more DOM for adblockers to look at, the pages may finally become canvases.

I just cannot see this not happening.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by captainmuon on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @11:11PM (#14450180)
Right, but you can already do that. Serve the whole page as a SVG, or JPEG, or PDF. You can already embed ads inline. Or just plain serve them from your own server, calling them article.jpg instead of http:://ads.adcompany.com/advertisement.jpg .

The reason people don't do this, is because ad companies want control. They want to know exactly how often the ads are served and they don't trust you to serve their ad all the time and to all customers. Also they want to rotate it quickly. Finally, they want to track people. So the solution is to use remote javascript. 99% of ads work this way, even mayor news sites don't sell their own ads anymore.

In this scheme, you'd probably still have ads served from a third party server. And even if they obfuscated the domain name, you could still probably identify their blob and block it.

So I'm not to worried about unblockable ads. But you're right, they will try, and I am worried about sites becoming unusable because they will emulate browsers using canvas, poorly.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by TheAceOfHearts on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @05:13AM (#14451218)
If you run your own rendering engine you lose accessibility. If you add aria tags to stuff in order to make it accessible, adblockers will be able to read them as well.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by drdaeman on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @02:44PM (#14454904)
I don't think advertisers care about accessibility. Not the same companies that want auto-starting video clips in your browser.

As for the site owners - unless it's someone large enough to care, I think the usual choice between "letting a few disabled persons access the site" and "getting a few more bucks from advertising" would be quite obvious. If that question would even arise.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by artursapek on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:04PM (#14449992)
Don't most ad blockers just rely on media queries on the DOM? I imagine there's a lot of ways to circumvent those techniques when you are rendering raw pixels with wasm.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by bastawhiz on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:26PM (#14450065)
Those pixels still have to go somewhere in the DOM, and clicks on those pixels still need to be handled. Plus, there's nothing wasm can render that you can't render with uglified JS already.
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by artursapek on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @11:22PM (#14450212)
So I guess it's equivalent to rendering ads on a Canvas element?
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by solomatov on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @09:49PM (#14449946)
>- Bitcoin mining that regular user can't detect

It makes very little sense to mine on anything other than ASICs.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by winstonewert on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @09:52PM (#14449956)
Is that still true if someone else foots the power bill?
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by sowbug on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:24PM (#14450059)
Put it this way: once you factored in the price of the bus fare to get to the public library to borrow a terminal to check your giant botnet's bitcoin earnings, your criminal enterprise would be operating at a loss.

CPU mining hasn't been viable since 2011 when bitcoin difficulty was below 1,000,000, and today it's near 600,000,000,000.

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by floatboth on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @07:33AM (#14451668)
Ethereum is mined on GPUs (that's why Radeons are out of stock everywhere all the time :D)
Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by bad_user on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:10PM (#14450012)
> unblockable advertising

What do you mean?

Re:Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly by 0x4f3759df on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @10:09AM (#14452627)
Turn your website into an interactive canvas, basically an HTML5 Canvas game that functions like a news site, I think it would be much more difficult to block ads in this scenario. One objection is that you can already do this and we don't see it, but a counterpoint is that its a hassle at the moment, and once tooling is advanced C# to WASM compiler or something along those lines, then we'll see frameworks and then it will be pretty simple and possibly compelling... If it gives publishers more control over the experience I don't see how they could pass it up.