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Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by stcredzero on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @07:00PM (#14449265)
While this seems drastically unrealistic from the viewpoint of someone in the US...

What!? So many people in the US live in urban environments where getting an oil change and emissions tested is yet another errand and yet another expense. Your "fuel" costs basically get halved. Factor in the time you save by never having to run the myriad errands required of petrol car owners, and if you want to have a shiny, great looking, fun to drive new model car, you're already out ahead! With the subsidy, it's been like that for years, and with the pace of improvements in battery tech and economies of scale, it will also be true without the subsidy.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by douche on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @07:05PM (#14449292)
Getting a state inspection and oil change costs about $50, once a year - if you're actually urban, you might not rack up 5k miles in a year, and could get by on a single oil change. Especially if you shelled out a little more for the newer, high-mileage motor oils.

I don't know what this myriad of errands you speak of are...

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by pixl97 on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @08:56PM (#14449783)
>and oil change costs about $50, once a year - if you're actually urban, you might not rack up 5k miles in a year, and could get by on a single oil change

Um, that's a really bad idea. Even if you are using 5k rated oil, you should get your oil changed every 2.5k or so if you are always in city driving.

Why is that?

Severe conditions. Pretty much every oil bottle and car manual says change your oil more often in "Severe conditions". Of course most people think of severe as stomping on the gas and going 100mph, or driving in mud and deep water, or something else just as crazy. Of course that's only part of what your manufacturer calls severe, this is also called severe conditions

* Driving repeated short distances.

* For extended periods of idling or low speed operation.

* More than 50% of driving in heavy city traffic in temperatures above 90°F.

* If using brakes extensively.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @09:47AM (#14452432)
>you should get your oil changed every 2.5k

Now you're just making stuff up, right? To support the narrative of the major hassle of oil changes, right?

(FTR I change my oils every 18,000–19,000 miles, or maybe once in 2 years, and while my city living and driving tends to focus not on churning on grid-locked centre but rather a bit more flowing sub-urban areas – still a far cry from countryside driving – a necessary 2,500-mile oil change scream nothing as loud as a garbage engine, vintages be excluded. Perhaps I should avoid talking about cars with Americans, they seem to live in a complete wacko-world when it comes to many things driving.)

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by gambiting on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @05:15AM (#14451225)
>>Um, that's a really bad idea. Even if you are using 5k rated oil, you should get your oil changed every 2.5k or so if you are always in city driving.

If you love spending loads of money on oil, sure, but there's absolutely no point. Oil change every 10k miles for new cars is more than enough. My last car had a recommended oil change every 18k miles, or every 12k during "heavy use". I had it changed at 10k and was told it was too early(based on the condition of the oil, not what the manual said).

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by cr0sh on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @04:12PM (#14455532)
> If you love spending loads of money on oil, sure, but there's absolutely no point.

I change my own oil on my vehicles. With synthetic oil and a new filter, it doesn't cost more than $75 USD per change, and you can take it lower if you get the oil on sale. Mineral oil, even cheaper.

> Oil change every 10k miles for new cars is more than enough.

For new cars, sure. I have used vehicles with > 100k on the odo; I tend to change my oil every 3-4k (so about 3-4 times per year). I could probably go longer between changes, but it would require me to have analysis run. If I'm feeling lazy, though, I know that I can safely get away with a new filter and top-up with a quart or so of oil.

> My last car had a recommended oil change every 18k miles, or every 12k during "heavy use". I had it changed at 10k and was told it was too early(based on the condition of the oil, not what the manual said).

You can't really tell what the condition of the oil is just from looking at it. To really know, you have to have it analyzed:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by skrause on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @04:21AM (#14451057)
Why are oil changes so frequent in the USA? Here in Germany the manufacturer's recommendation is usually an oil change every ~10k miles or once a year (whichever come first).
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by iamatworknow on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @09:38AM (#14452357)
It's basically the same for modern cars in the US, too.

I lease a Toyota Corolla and bring it in for the regular maintenance every 6 months, as instructed. They only change the oil every other visit, or roughly every 10-12k miles. The other visits are just inspections and tire rotations.

The maintenance guide says the oil should be changed every 5k miles only if driving under "special operating conditions":

- Driving on dirt roads or dusty roads

- Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading

- Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32°F / 0°C

- Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for a long distance such as police, taxi or door-to-door delivery use

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by jaclaz on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @05:35AM (#14451292)
It depends on cars, and on quality of oil and on driving style/habits, I had a (German BTW) turbodiesel car where the on-board computer would tell me when the oil change was necessary, and it averaged every 30,000 to 33,000 km (which happened after a little more than one year). I changed car only when (12 years old) it was around 340,000 km without having ever had any engine related issue (and it was still running fine, I changed it only because a relative's car with only 80,000 Km became available).
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by bluGill on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @10:57AM (#14453006)
Because it is "harmless" and supports the oil change companies therefore they spread the myth that you need to change your oil more often than is required as a treat to your engine.
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by aceofspades19 on Thursday June 01, 2017 @01:11AM (#14458143)
Ummm, most modern cards can go far above 5000 miles, and definitely longer than 2500 miles. If you have an old beater from the 90s, it might be a good idea to change it every 2500 miles but definitely not any car made in the past decade.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-y...

"One GM car Edmunds drove went 13,000 miles before the monitoring system indicated the need for an oil change. We sent a sample of that oil to a lab for analysis. The results showed that the oil could have safely delivered at least another 2,000 miles of service."

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by douche on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @09:04PM (#14449808)
To be honest, most of these things, you don't actually care about the engine oil, so much as greasing all the other bearings that are involved in the typical oil-change/service.
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by Taniwha on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @09:17PM (#14449845)
that's true if you're squirting your oil thru a screaming hot engine full of a thousand moving parts ... on an electric you're really just lubricating the gear train (which is likely simpler because of the greater range of an electric motor) which is not running anywhere as hot as a traditional engine
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by stcredzero on Friday June 02, 2017 @04:50PM (#14473201)
Errands I recall from the top of my head from having owned various vehicles, exclusive to only those applying to internal combustion vehicles:

    Repair of the radiator. 
    Emissions testing. 
    Oil change. 
    Repair of the ignition system (90's Honda CRX). 
    Repair of the fuel pump. 
    Change transmission fluid. 
    Replace timing belt. 
    Ignition related tune-up, including change spark plugs (Toyota.) 
    Re-adjustment of ignition timing. (Toyota)
    Replace car battery.
    Replace alternator.
    Replace starter.
Younger folks aren't as aware of things like the above, because the details of this are now hidden away behind mandatory dealer visits. Seems like our society is getting more authoritarian and encouraging you to know less. It will be far easier to make electric vehicles reliable and they will be much more reliable than internal combustion engines, and this will save society countless person-hours which can go into other sectors of the economy and human advancement.
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by ryanmarsh on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @07:40PM (#14449459)
If EV's are at least as reliable as Toyotas that's a lot of expensive errands avoided relative to your average American car.

GMs and Fords spend a lot more time in the shop/parking lot of AutoZone.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by gambiting on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @05:14AM (#14451221)
What myriad tasks?

My oil and everything else that needs changing is changed at the yearly mandatory service. You will have to do it in an electric car too so you're not saving any time here.

You will also have to change tyres when they wear out, same as with a normal car, same with brakes and everything else.

The only true point here is that the fuel cost is a lot cheaper especially over here with petrol at over $8/US gallon.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by stcredzero on Friday June 02, 2017 @04:40PM (#14473133)
My oil and everything else that needs changing is changed at the yearly mandatory service. You will have to do it in an electric car too so you're not saving any time here.

Actually, I don't have that. I have one service based on mileage coming up, which seems like it will be the only one I will ever hit before my lease is up. I've taken it in once for a firmware upgrade, and I've had my EV for a year and a half. (And the dealer washed my car, so for me, it was folded into a car wash errand.)

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by bluGill on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @11:05AM (#14453074)
> Factor in the time you save by never having to run the myriad errands required of petrol car owners

Actually the EV takes MORE time fore those myriad tasks. With the EV you take an extra minute every night to plug it in, and an extra minute to unplug it in the morning (most of this is time to coil the chord - maybe the time is only 30 seconds, it of course depends on how the location of the charger relates to the front door). With a gas car you spend 10 minutes once every two weeks to put in more gas. As a result the EV cots you 5 minutes a week.

Note that the time for an EV is part of the routine so it is easy to forget about it, but it is still real time.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by stcredzero on Friday June 02, 2017 @04:37PM (#14473118)
Actually the EV takes MORE time fore those myriad tasks.

No, you still save time. Since those 30 seconds are folded into each non-car errand, they really come out of the errand/task-context-switch overhead. By requiring fewer errands, you actually save time.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by mgberlin on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @07:19PM (#14449368)
Of all the words I would use to describe the current electric cars (and hybrids) on the market (except Tesla), "great looking" would not be one of them. I don't understand what they're thinking in designing the boxy, heinous, toy-ish electrics that are available now. I would rather walk then have to ride in a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf.
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by prawn on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @11:08PM (#14450177)
"I would rather walk then have to ride in a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf."

I trust that is an exaggeration? Strikes me as a pretty odd attitude.

In much of Europe, with tiny streets and parking allowances, I liked that people considered their car more of a practical thing than a fashion choice. In Australia or the US, men act emasculated if they aren't driving a large ute/truck, whereas it's more often the default in Europe that they're just in whatever is easiest to park - a three-door hatch or a small-factor SUV (that would be similar in size to a hatch in Australia).

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by cr0sh on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @03:59PM (#14455440)
> In Australia or the US, men act emasculated if they aren't driving a large ute/truck

I wish that here in the US we could still get a small pickup, with a 2-door standard cab and a short bed, but CAFE rules have prevented auto makers from going that route.

I hate four door, extend cab pickups. I hate the long wheelbase. I'd like to be able to buy a new small Ford Ranger again (4wd this time) - but I can't. Even the Wrangler has gone almost exclusively 4-door and "big".

I can't see myself in a car (well - beyond something like a Mustang GT or similar - but I already know one of those would get me in trouble with the law super-quick); I'm currently driving a loaner Camry from my repair shop (while they take care of some problems with my recently purchased TJ), and while it's been a great car (250k and runs like a dream, honestly - for a 1993 its not bad at all!), it just feels wrong to me.

So, for now I'm going to stick with my VehiCROSS and TJ - both used and paid-for, but both suck the cash outta my wallet in so many ways. And let's not talk about the carbon footprint for either (both get around 15 mpg or less - ugh). But I don't have a problem going off-road.

Which for an EV, I'm just waiting for this possibility. Right now, though, there isn't a big enough demand for EVs period, let alone pickups or 4wd. I've seen a couple of EV pickups (Ford actually made an EV Ranger back in the 90s), but the latest concept I've seen is just yet another extended cab monstrosity (but AWD). I don't want or need that.

What would be cool to see would be the OX truck with an EV option (but I doubt that will happen, as it doesn't fit its use or demographics - nor are they likely to be sold to regular consumers).

Finally, of the EVs I have seen - outside of the Tesla - the Volt actually looks rather nice, for a small car.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by madengr on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:28PM (#14450074)
I have a Leaf and a 4 door Toyota pickup. I'm 6'5" at 240 LB. The Leaf has much more room than the truck. I have 1/2" of headroom in the truck, and no vertical field of view. I have several inches in the Leaf. I can also put the seat all the way back, and put adults in the rear seat. Can't even put a kid in the rear seat of the truck.

EV are much roomier than ICE vehicles.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by kalleboo on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @09:05AM (#14452127)
They'll make electrics that don't stand out when there's a market for them. Toyota makes a Camry hybrid but the kind of people who buy hybrids still prefer to buy Priuses.

Although having seen them all in person, I actually prefer the design of the Leaf and i3 to the Tesla. They look a bit cheap but the Tesla looks... disproportionate(?) in person. Maybe it'd just a difference in US design taste vs EU/Japan.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by jadei on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @08:18PM (#14449629)
As far as all electric I agree with you but for hybrids you have some nice choices. For example, the Ford Fusion hybrid and plugin use the same chassis as the Fusion non-hybrids. Some people even remove the hybrid branding:

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/gallery/image/581-2016-...

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by organsnyder on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @10:53PM (#14450134)
Chrysler's Pacifica PHEV also has really good looks. I think it looks even better than the conventional gas version: https://goo.gl/photos/ptC2XrJ6NnbtaDEE6
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by fivestar on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @09:49AM (#14452452)
Because it's not about real outcomes, it's about being seen "caring" about the environment, or whatever. The marketing people have the buyers figured out or it wouldn't be that way.

I still chuckle when I see a Prius, especially that newer one that looks like a Batmobile. People are daffy suckers.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by stcredzero on Friday June 02, 2017 @04:34PM (#14473098)
Of all the words I would use to describe the current electric cars (and hybrids) on the market (except Tesla), "great looking" would not be one of them.

I think my Fiat 500e looks great inside and out.

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by callmeal on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @07:46PM (#14449493)
I think OP was thinking of this[1]

[1] https://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-coupe

Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by vesak on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @07:47AM (#14451729)
Priuses are pretty, I think. But perhaps you'd enjoy something like Hyundai Ioniq -- it's more traditional-looking.
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by acchow on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @12:56AM (#14450500)
Does anyone have any insight into how the BMW i3 became what it looks like?
Re:Electric Cars Soon Will Cost Less Than Gas Cars, Research... by fivestar on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @09:50AM (#14452469)
BMW lost its soul? They just keep shitting on the enthusiasts in an effort to win over the soccer Mom demographic. Sad, really.