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Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by Roritharr on Sunday May 28, 2017 @04:11PM (#14435892)
I recently read an Interview with the CEO of one of Germany's biggest travelling agencies, TUI[1]. In it, he described selling the "hotelbeds" database service for 1.19bn€ because in the future information about hotelbed vacancies would be stored in a public blockchain, not in centralised closed data silos. He described this as a democratization of data, a counter model compared to how Facebook and Google currently hoard data without giving anyone else access to it.

To me it didn't make sense, because who would participate in such a blockchain? Who is the miner? Why? Where is the trustless concensus feature needed? Maybe someone more knowledgeable can explain what he meant.

[1] https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article164874973/Die-Internet...

Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by terhechte on Sunday May 28, 2017 @04:35PM (#14435978)
There's quite a lot of data out there which is shared by multiple companies with easy (or sometimes complicated) sync mechanisms where the actual money is not in the data but in the services that can produce this data. Hotelbeds is one example:

- Hotels want to have their information on as many sites as possible

- When travel site A blocks / books a room, travel site B and C need to update their databases quickly

- The money is not in the database, as those are effectively just data caches of the information that the hotels will happily provide free of charge

- The data is already shared between hotel sites, just that every site has their own data silo.

- Money is made through individual contracts, upsell, services or better UI to access the shared data

Another example of this is, of course flight information.

So why would a company move this data onto a blockchain. We can take Ethereum as an example. Note that some of the things I describe here are presently not possible with Ethereum but will be possible within the next couple of software updates (I imagine within the next 1-2 years). Ethereum offers an existing, working, generalized blockchain with existing miners. Sure, a company could try to roll its own blockchain, but, as you observed, who would want to mine that. Also, there's little to gain by taking a private database and making it a semi-private blockchain.

Ethereum incentives the miners with Ether to continue to secure the data and keep the consensus.

The Hotelbeds database could become a database on top of Ethereum and the access would be regulated via a smart contract. That smart contract could be used to mark an individual room as booked (or reserved) for a certain time range. This means that each booking would cost a small amount of gas to pay for the transaction. Ethereum strives for a sub-second block time, which means that the database transaction could be almost instantaneous (compared to, say, Bitcoin, where currently transactions sometimes need to wait 3-4 hours). In comparison to the booking cost of the room, this small transaction / gas fee would be negligible (I hope). Since all Hotelbed sites would use this same contract / blockchain, there'd be no syncing required, as all changes would be available to all clients the second they happen. Even better, the smart contract could contain basic logic to defend invalid requests without ever alerting the clients (booking invalid dates, etc). A different, but related dataset (say car bookings) could also be hosted on the blockchain and could be queried at the same time to provide additional services ("there's one free car to rent for your hotel in that timeframe").

Alternatively, of course, all hotel sites could just get their data from one database company that sells access to the data and takes care of an internal database of all hotel bookings (i.e. Google). However, then, you're dependent on a different vendor. He may change his prices, he may limit the data, he may start giving certain hotels only to premium clients (see net neutrality). Even worse, at some point he may stop serving the data because it is not economically feasible (see Google Reader, or Facebook Parse). With Ethereum, there's nobody who officially owns the database. It can also never be taken offline again (at least until the last miner stops running his Ethereum node).

This doesn't work for data sets where the value lies in the data itself, but for data which is already replicated across multiple databases anyway, this is a great alternative solution to have a truly global, synced, database that is owned by nobody, where nobody gatekeeper, and where the entrance barrier is low.

I.e. it wouldn't make sense for Facebook (obviously) or Gmail, but for a truly decentralised Twitter (nee Diaspora) or Weather Information, etc.

Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by notahacker on Sunday May 28, 2017 @05:37PM (#14436187)
I'm still struggling to see what Ethereum adds over a regular API connection to the hotel's actual reservation database, except requirement for new software to be written and mining costs (paid by whom?)

I mean, hotels are a great example of a system where there is a gatekeeper (the hotel), that gatekeeper wants to do stuff that blockchains aren't optimised for (rolling back transactions, keeping most of the data non-public and limiting who can access the shared bits at what rate) and doesn't want to do any of the stuff which blockchains are optimised for (trustless transactions, immutable permanent records). With hundreds of thousands of travel agencies already using distribution platforms that interface with existing reservations system and none writing smart contracts, I can't see any incentive for a hotel to insist on accepting bookings in the latter form. Making a purely internal blockchain database like TUI have done is an even weirder move.

(English version of the TUI interview http://www.tuigroup.com/en-en/homepage-news-specials/2017-05...)

Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by RexetBlell on Sunday May 28, 2017 @07:32PM (#14436559)
The advantage that Ethereum adds is other existing DAPPS on Ethereum. For example, a hotel owner could put up a room for sale and buy insurance right away for the case it won't be rented out in the next 24 hours. Or the owner could ask a prediction market, "what price should I set for this room?" to maximize my revenue. It's kind of hard to explain, but the biggest selling point of Ethereum is an ecosystem of Dapps working together.
Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by nisa on Sunday May 28, 2017 @06:34PM (#14436388)
Some serious questions - If you have technical not buzzword links for how 'the blockchain will work I'd also be happy. So far it all came to down to: smart contracts, etherum!?

Some questions:

How is user access organised?

How to remove an organisation?

How to remove old booking for hotels?

How to prevent me from exploiting an bug in the database? I.e. incuring storage or computation costs -> DDoS?

How to revoke access when a private key / access token is compromised?

If I'm having a lot of Etherum due to hacking or stuff like that - what prevents to me extort the Hotels to break their system? Blow up the database? if I have enough gas.

Bug in the database?

I'm honestly interested how this is solved / will be solved. If you have links - at best with some math / hard concepts please share!

Thanks!

Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by RexetBlell on Sunday May 28, 2017 @07:23PM (#14436535)
The contract (you can think of it as a class in Java) has a list of private keys who are allowed to make modifications to the database. Each key has has a list of associated privileges - what modifications can that user make. Keys with a higher privilege level have the right to add/remove keys.

When someone creates a booking, he has the right to remove his own booking. Each booking might also have an expiration date, so it's removed automatically when expired. When a key is stolen, a key with a higher privilege level can disable access of the stolen key.

If it's implemented correctly (which will take time and maybe several failed attempts), hacking, bugs and DDOS should not be an issue.

Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by harryh on Sunday May 28, 2017 @06:03PM (#14436279)
I don't think the relevant comparison is the cost of an Etherium transaction to the cost of a hotel room. I think the relevant comparison is the cost of an Etherium transaction to the cost of a transaction to a proprietary database.

Distributed consensus transactions are MUCH MUCH more expensive than transactions to centralized databases. Is that extra cost worth eliminating the disadvantages of centralization that you cite? Maybe. But that's not at all obvious to me.

Keep in mind that a transaction on the block chain currently costs about $11:

144blocks/day * 12.5btc/block * $2100/btc / 335000transactions/day

Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by jpatokal on Sunday May 28, 2017 @06:29PM (#14436373)
The extra cost here is not the cost of the DB write, but the rent extracted by the owner of the database. For example, access to flight bookings data starts at thousands of dollars/month.
Re:Blockchains are the new Linux, not the new Internet by harryh on Sunday May 28, 2017 @06:39PM (#14436407)
Yes, that is certainly one of the "disadvantages of centralization" that I was referring to. Again, it's not clear to me that that cost will be higher than the additional costs of writing to a distributed consensus database (which are very very high).