hammerandtongs already suggested this: it's not a trade-off, you just didn't get to learn Vim appropriately (you say yourself that you're "part time vim user"). Vim is so convenient for its regular users not because it saves them keystrokes, but because it saves them this mental power you talk about. I don't think what commands I want to execute. I think where I want to get in the file or what should the text look like, and then the logic behind the structure of vi/Vim commands takes me there.

It's very similar to proficiency in any other editor, except Vim has so much more to offer with regard to editing (both in first-order commands and in composing the commands). So much more that watching how a proficient Vim user edits a file is akin to observing a stage magician. Most of the people cannot keep up with the changes to the text.

this is gibberish unless vim comes with some sort of spinal cord dongle. either it's muscle memory or thinking but you still have to have practiced the keystrokes.

cerebellum is largely responsible for your muscle memory but premotor cortex stll needs to initialize those commands (what keys to press) then the cerebellum adjusts the precision i.e touch-typing part of it guess...

I expect not. Vim, for those that use it, is merely an extension of that.

http://deliberate-software.com/vim-refactoring-patterns/

It's like you were arguing that printf("foo\n") and printf("bar\n") were some fundamentally different magic incantations in C that you need to remember separately.

I've been using emacs for decades and I don't think I've never done this. I've written my own elisp functions, packages etc (nothing too fancy, mostly text-oriented transformations) I guess I'm curious what you mean by 'editing a configuration panel'.

Ie you don't spend the time to become fluent, so it's always "thinking" instead of being able to just do.

Incidentally you should always always leave the insert mode when you are done typing.

You are never confused about state because your default is "normal mode".

I touch a terminal a lot, and I don't value vim enough to become fluent. I certainly know how to use it, and I know a fair bit of the commands, but it's nowhere close to my preferred workflow.

Plus, there's a huge array of tools out there to allow me to work with files in the editor of my choice, even when working on remote machines.

Finally, I grew up playing video games and using a computer, complete with modern input. The mouse is a first class input device, and I know how to use it effectively, quickly, and precisely to perform a wide variety of actions. I prefer an editor that treats the mouse like it's useful, rather than an add on that you can enable with extensions if desired.

Funny you bring this up, since this reminds me of another discussion: I played a lot of videogames using keyboard and mouse, whereas some of my friends still own consoles and play (more or less) precision-based shooters using gamepads. Every now and then we used to have a couple of multiplayer matches locally on someone's PS. I still tend to skip my turns and just watch the others as gamepad based aiming in shooters tends to get me really frustrated. I'm used to the mouse and forcefully having removed the additional speed and precision it gives you while aiming feels terrible. I get the same feeling if I have to use an editor without Vim-style bindings, although I'm by no means an expert Vim user.

The interesting thing there is that you won't ever find a precision-based first person shooter with crossplay between PC and consoles, because the mouse gives PC players that much of an advantage.

> The mouse is a first class input device, and I know how to use it effectively, quickly, and precisely to perform a wide variety of actions.

I agree with you there, but so far I've come to the conclusion that it's strengths don't really show if you mainly edit text. The mouse is amazing for precision-based positioning, much like an analog stick can be superior to WASD because it's not limited to 8 axes and has more than just an on/off nature.

I find your other point far more important, though:

> I don't value vim enough to become fluent.

If you're not paid for the speed with which you edit text (and those jobs have become really rare nowadays), that's perfectly valid. Not everyone is interested in investing so much in a fringe activity, and we certainly would get far less done collectively if every tool would force a Vim-style learning curve on people.

This is why I liked the controls in goldeneye, perfect dark and timesplitters. They had consoles in mind from the ground up so the embraced the lack of precision controls with things like auto aiming and level design (mostly flat). Every other console shooter (including all since Halo) has tried to use controllers as though they're a keyboard/mouse.

The control scheme was also modal, where you'd have to hold down a button and not move if you wanted precision aiming.

Go figure.

Roguelikes, UT, Doom, Quake , and the like from my past pushed me more than anything into learning and loving emacs keyboard bindings.

No other way to experience that sort of speed-of-thought and precision in a UI/UX for me, and certain actions within emacs very much remind me of muscle-twitch maneuvers like rocket-jumping, bunnyhopping, or reload-canceling.

Though in my experience, once you go all in, you start trying to get it to work on everything; in my case that means vim keybindings for everything, including web browser, and it can be a bit jarring to give it up when you use someone else's computer.