News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by awalton on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:13PM (#14419801)
It honestly doesn't matter. Nobody at the FCC is going to read these things - it's there because it has to be there, not because they intend on listening.

They've set their agenda, now they're executing it. They have absolutely no plans on listening to anyone along the way. Nobody in this entire administration does.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by ChuckMcM on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:19PM (#14419834)
But it does matter, because it shows malice and intent. All three data points have to be taken together (FCC Opens up comments, Comments criminally spammed, FCC decides the issue X). Given the clear and convincing evidence of malfeasance in the comment stream, the FCC's actions can be judged as reasonable or unreasonable.

So what matters is that we shine light on their agenda so that it is not possible for them to credibly deny they are not following their own policies.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by notadoc on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:04PM (#14420136)
> So what matters is that we shine light on their agenda so that it is not possible for them to credibly deny they are not following their own policies.

And who is going to shine a line or report on that? The "fake news" media?

Nobody will care, they don't want to hear it and they won't believe it, cognitive dissonance is amazingly powerful.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by ohazi on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:49PM (#14420399)
It's a long game. This administration will (eventually) turn over, and we need the new guys to be very clear about where the old guys fucked up.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by Chris2048 on Friday May 26, 2017 @06:42AM (#14423108)
The fake news is also in favor of the "new guys".
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by ebbv on Thursday May 25, 2017 @06:18PM (#14420601)
Cognitive dissonance is when you hold two opposing viewpoints at once. Like if you think killing animals for food is wrong but you love eating steaks and plan to continue doing so.

It does not mean choosing to ignore reality or being willfully blind like you are using it here. I'm not sure how it has become popular to misuse it in that way over the last couple years, but it seems to be a thing.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by et-al on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:05PM (#14420804)
I think notadoc meant to use the term "mental gymnastics".

(I agree "cognitive dissonance" seems to be misused lately. That's how language evolves, unfortunately. And to add to your definition, it's the stress from with holding two opposing thoughts, hence the dissonance.)

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by RRWagner on Thursday May 25, 2017 @11:41PM (#14421835)
How about "cognitive disconnect" as the better descriptive phrase?
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by episteam on Friday May 26, 2017 @01:43AM (#14422215)
It's just plain old confirmation bias, though I like the more recent[1] semantic extension of the phrase "epistemic closure" to describe belief systems impervious to outside information.

[1] - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/books/28conserv.html

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by TheCoelacanth on Friday May 26, 2017 @11:08AM (#14424569)
If the FCC ruling is challenged in court, then hopefully the court would do that. The FCC doesn't have to follow what the comments tell them to do, but they do have to take their arguments into consideration.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by fjdlwlv on Friday May 26, 2017 @01:08AM (#14422113)
What does spam have to do with the FCC's decision making?

Nothing.

Comments are for submitting ideas. It was never supposed to be a popular vote.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by evanlivingston on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:25PM (#14419891)
Shine a light for who to see?
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by PerryCox on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:46PM (#14420039)
Hopefully the EFF can challenge this in court and this provides good evidence that the FCC is ignoring what Americans want.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by fjdlwlv on Friday May 26, 2017 @01:12AM (#14422123)
FCC's job is to make and enforce policy that conforms to the law set by Congress, not to hold and obey public votes.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by TheCoelacanth on Friday May 26, 2017 @11:11AM (#14424586)
Yet, they are not allowed to ignore the public's comments. They must take them into consideration, even if they end up deciding to act against public opinion.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by rayiner on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:22PM (#14420238)
Ignoring what Americans want is almost the entire point of regulatory agencies like the FCC. They're a bureaucratic/technocratic check on the democratic process. (Which is why, in my opinion they're unconstitutional, but that's an argument for another day.)
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by Declanomous on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:28PM (#14420269)
That doesn't really explain the fact that a lot of agencies were created because of public outcry, such as the FDA. I think agencies exist because lawmakers don't really have the ability to move decisively when it is needed.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by beaconstudios on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:10PM (#14420825)
isn't the constitution itself a check on the democratic process?
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by rayiner on Thursday May 25, 2017 @08:39PM (#14421254)
Many mechanisms in the constitution serve as checks on the democratic process. Adding checks in addition to those is unconstitutional: http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/ECM_PRO_060974.pd....
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by shawnee_ on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:54PM (#14420089)
For the folks who aren't about to give up so easy, here's the reddit sub where people are brainstorming ways to "make" them listen. Again. I imagine it wil be something along the lines of another blackout or whatever a "march" on the Internet would look like.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MarchForNetNeutrality/

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by rmccoy6435 on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:03PM (#14420132)
I'm sorry, but what exactly is this subreddit accomplishing? It looks like just a bunch of articles about how the current FCC admin is bad, and fear-mongering photos of phones being completely blacked out and emojis on them. I don't like the removal of net neutrality rulings, but suggesting that place is a serious forum for bringing about change is a bit of a stretch. Good arguments to keep the rulings are going to do more than creating something like this: https://i.redd.it/c3esz8ok0izy.png
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by awalton on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:27PM (#14420266)
I'm not giving up, I'm stating the facts of the case. If you've actually got a concrete proposal on something that will actually shift the agenda of this agency, I'm 100% all ears.

I suspect I'll be waiting a while though, since the FCC, like many of the commissions like it, were not created with the Russian coup like we're experiencing right now in mind. We can protest and gnash our teeth all we want, but very, very soon this is going to happen, and then very, very soon we're going to see companies like Verizon, AT&T and Comcast moving to marginalize our ability to communicate and use the services we want as we want, all the while maintaining they will "honor net neutrality". At that point, we can sue and start the lawsuit process... but they've got warchests tallying the billions of dollars, control and deep connections in the media to push their agenda, and lawyers enough to bury the suit for a decade and we've got... the EFF? It's the definition of a Goliath vs David battle, and it's not a swift battle to fight.

Normally we'd turn to our representatives and senators to swat down stupidity, or failing that, sue early and hope the court system figures it out... but all of those solutions require a cooperative government which we are seeing is simply not going to be the case here. Silly enough, our government has the power to choose who sues them and whether the case can proceed - all they need to do is shop for the right venue. The government is currently only listening to companies who have written them fat checks to execute on their demands, and unfortunately the will of the American people is collateral damage.

(Luckily for us, the Republicans aren't actually coordinated enough yet within their own party to really start dismantling this country, because right now they wield an unprecedented amount of power to push whatever agenda they please - if it's constitutional, they can do it, and we have next to no actual legal power to stop them, aside from an actual revolution. Perhaps the next set of people we put into power will right this incredible wrong and pass some laws or perhaps even a constitutional amendment giving the citizens of this country to override the will of the legislature or executive branch through a vote of no confidence or a recall election, or even just the ability for the citizens to pause non-essential Federal government policymaking during an active criminal investigation into the executive branch... but I'm not holding my breath on any of these happening in the next 3ish years.)

Our best bet is that maybe in 2018 enough seats flip that maybe Congress can claw back some control and stem the madness until 2020 when we can hopefully restore sanity (you know, if we can prevent external countries meddling in our election again...) but we currently have no brakes to pump, and nobody in government representing the majority of the American people when they say they want strong net neutrality backed by Title II. Making a lot of noise isn't going to solve this problem alone. Either they need to actually be stripped of power, or us citizens need to find some actual power to wield against them.

And like I said, I'm all ears on where we can get some power.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by ElEmEnOhP on Thursday May 25, 2017 @06:13PM (#14420567)
Good luck with that, the current FCC chair was an Obama appointee. This has nothing to do with silly Russian conspiracy theories and everything to do with money.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by pseudalopex on Thursday May 25, 2017 @10:06PM (#14421591)
There's a limit of 3 commissioners from the same party. Obama followed precedent by nominating the Republicans' picks for the other 2 seats. The Democrats on the commission have consistently supported net neutrality, and the Republicans have consistently opposed it.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by shawnee_ on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:43PM (#14420963)
The only facts so far are that dissenters have until mid-August to make their side known.

The trick is they want you to feel powerless and that nothing can be done, that it's already too late. Your original comment shows you are falling for it.

The means they are using to perform this trickery is to convince you that it is too much for any one person to make a difference. "Their minds are already made up". This kind of trickery only works on uneducated and weak people.

The blackouts worked before because they disrupted, at least a little bit, the everyday lives of important people and non-important people alike ... because a lot of people worked in concert together to be heard/noticed as one.

I'll refrain from responding to the snide remarks by rmccoy6435; suffice it to say that if there is one thing that a subreddit can do well, it's help people organize w.r.t. their constitutional right to assemble[1] in the name of free speech and thus show strength in numbers. Losing net neutrality could theoretically take that away, too.

[1]https://www.loc.gov/law/help/peaceful-assembly/us.php

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by at-fates-hands on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:17PM (#14420869)
>> I suspect I'll be waiting a while though, since the FCC, like many of the commissions like it, were not created with the Russian coup like we're experiencing right now in mind.

I stopped reading after this sentence. If you want me to listen to what you have to say (and judging by the amount of paragraphs on your post, it looks like a lot) then using political rhetoric doesn't help you at all.

I want solutions, and I'm plenty fucking tired of pointing fingers and talking about conspiracies.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by acomjean on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:32PM (#14419938)
This: I heard the NPR interview with Ajit Pai. Basically he had made his mind up. The writeup is very kind to him, the audio is a lot worse.

Q: if public opinon would prefer to treat the internet like the internet like a utility would you vote the other way?

Pai responded with Not really an answer saying they have to look at the evidence, but his answer was no.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/05/05/526...

His solution to problems with ISPs is for consumers to complain to a regulatory agency. After taking away regulatory authority.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by sailfast on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:57PM (#14420106)
While it's easy to fall into this mindset I think it is important that we do not. Staying engaged is extremely important, and regulators (especially bipartisan commissions) will review these comments and incorporate them. If anything, the sheer number of dissenting comments is a metric that will be important to measure the popularity or lack thereof of any decision.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by rcthompson on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:59PM (#14420113)
Of course they've already decided what they're going to do, but even if there's no chance these public comments will stop them, it's still better if there's a record of fierce public opposition that they have to explain.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by dragonwriter on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:18PM (#14419828)
> Nobody at the FCC is going to read these things

Yes, they will. And the final rule that is issued (and the almost inevitable dissent) will probably directly acknowledge them (though one side dismissively.)

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by raarts on Thursday May 25, 2017 @06:17PM (#14420591)
This reluctant attitude is what allows them to win.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by Glyptodon on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:42PM (#14420004)
Even if the policy choices are foregone an investigation punishing those responsible for this identity theft seems merited.
Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by awalton on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:55PM (#14420094)
> punishing those responsible for this identity theft seems merited.

Oh no, those pesky Russians got their hands on a public data breach dataset and are simply ripping through them and submitting the same comment over and over...

Whelp, we better acquiesce to 'their' 'demands' and do exactly what we wanted to do in the first place. How convenient all of these robots were exactly aligned with our desires!

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by at-fates-hands on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:14PM (#14420852)
Sounds just like the previous administration and the one before that.

I wonder how bad it will get before this country finally realizes its going to take more than two parties to run this country well. People are getting sick of this shit.

Re:Dead People Are Posting Anti-Net Neutrality Comments to F... by kome on Thursday May 25, 2017 @05:55PM (#14420455)
No, it's big deal, very dangerous AND it's a crime.