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Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by Animats on Saturday May 20, 2017 @12:43PM (#14383173)
I'm surprised that someone hasn't taken on Google in search. Cuil tried, and they had a huge spike in traffic at launch. Then people discovered the product was broken. Also, they didn't have a revenue model. They were able to build a full search engine with about 50 people and $50M, which indicates the price of entry isn't that high.

Over time, hardware gets cheaper, and the cost of building a search engine declines. This has not been matched with a reduction in ad density. The cost improvement is going into Google's profit margin. That indicates a vulnerability.

Google has some striking weaknesses. The two I focus on are provenance and business background. I've done work on business background (see "sitetruth.com"). That tries to find the real-world business behind a web site that's selling something, and then uses the data available about real-world businesses to check it out. That can then be fed into search result ordering. SiteTruth is a demo; it's running off free data sources. Paying for higher quality data from Dun and Bradstreet and other non-cheap sources would make the business background check much better.

Google's other big weakness is provenance. Search engines should find the original source of information. Much of the Internet is sites scraping other sites, linking to other sites, and commenting on other sites. We see this on HN all the time, where someone links to an article, but the actual source is two blogs deep. The original source should be the primary search result, perhaps annotated with notes about the more heavily promoted sites mentioning it. This means more attention to when something appeared and better matching of content. Google already does this for news. For ranking purposes, attention metrics for scraper sites need to be credited to the original source, not the scraper site.

One possible customer for such a system is Bloomberg. The people who get those expensive terminals could use both of those features. Then offer it to the better universities, so that students grow up using something less consumer-oriented with Google. That strategy worked for Facebook.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by gboudrias on Saturday May 20, 2017 @03:01PM (#14383778)
The quality of Google's search results has already gone down, thanks to results being personalized based on previous searches and other data, a feature it seems no one asked for. And they continue to cannibalize themselves by making ads more and more indistinguishable from normal search results. I'm sure that's made them a lot of money in the short-term, but everyone now knows they can't be trusted, as quality is no longer sacred (which was its main appeal back in the early days!). They are now in the same category of pedestrian ad peddlers as Facebook and Twitter.

Therefore a competing product doesn't need to be as good as current Google, only as good as it used to be. Still hard, but far from impossible for someone with money.

What may be harder is Cuil's second problem as mentioned: Finding a revenue model. You can't compromise your data by manipulating searches (lessens quality) and you can't compromise your integrity by prioritizing ads (lessens trust). I'm sure a lot of people would pay big money for the answer, which no one seems to have (as demonstrated by Twitter's descent into ad trickery such as camouflaging the ad disclaimers).

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by rwallace on Sunday May 21, 2017 @11:28AM (#14387705)
> The quality of Google's search results has already gone down, thanks to results being personalized based on previous searches and other data, a feature it seems no one asked for.

Actually, I appreciate that feature very much. I like that when I search for Python, Google knows as a programmer I mean the language not the snake. Doubtless there are herpetologists who appreciate that Google knows they mean the snake.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by CM30 on Saturday May 20, 2017 @07:34PM (#14384950)
Not just that. I think one of the biggest issues Google has had recently is that they're trying too hard to guess what their users 'might' want instead of what they actually want.

Try and search anything even remotely technical or specific. Google brings back a few thousand irrelevant results, often with stuff like 'not found: word you were actually after' underneath in grey. Sometimes even when you do add quotes or speech marks around the term.

A better Google would be one that doesn't assume people want 'any old possible answer' and tries to answer specific queries as easily as general ones.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by fapjacks on Sunday May 21, 2017 @05:36AM (#14386470)
Advertising has given Google tunnel vision with respect to search, I think.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by hyperpallium on Saturday May 20, 2017 @11:59PM (#14385642)
> Therefore a competing product doesn't need to be as good as current Google, only as good as it used to be.

While there seems no barrier to entry, just consumer habit, google is faster than it used to be, despite a larger web and more users.

Speed of search results has been shown to be extremely important to users. Google's many large server farms, close to users, is a huge capital investment. Google has doubled down on this advantage, with google suggest, which requires even more power. For example, google has much lower latency than DDG. Replicating those server farms would be expensive; I'm not sure than even all of AWS could do it.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by randomsearch on Sunday May 21, 2017 @07:12AM (#14386728)
More to the point, to dislodge an incumbent you have to be a _lot_ better.

When I first used Google in 2000, I immediately knew they would come to dominate search, because their product was so much better. It's not enough to be as good as Google, you have to wipe the floor with them.

As others have pointed out, the Amazon Echo is a viable approach to doing this. Shame it sucks for anything but the most trivial queries right now.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by Animats on Saturday May 20, 2017 @03:23PM (#14383881)
What may be harder is Cuil's second problem as mentioned: Finding a revenue model.

Perhaps the answer is to do what Craigslist did. In a few categories, ones you have to ask for such as "Shopping" or "Jobs", there are ads, or product ordering boxes, clearly identified as such. Non-commercial information is not polluted with ads.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by tim333 on Sunday May 21, 2017 @07:08AM (#14386715)
Or the duck duck go model. Run ads but just based on the search terms, not personal info.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by orthoganol on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:31PM (#14383635)
If you think about it Google is used in a weird way these days, that's completely different from its early years, so it does make me wonder why "replace Google" wouldn't be reasonable.

I rarely visit sites out of a band of 15 or so, and I only use Google to find pages within those sites (which itself follows a normal distribution). I.e. I know I want a page from stackoverflow, or Wikipedia, or arxiv, or Reddit, or Yelp but rather than navigating to those sites I just cmd+T in Chrome, type keywords, and scroll to the site's link on the result page which is almost always at the top anyways.

I'm sure others use Google like this too (varying on your culture's go-to sites), so does it even need to exist as it does right now? I could imagine a new app that indexes just within this band of sites. And Google or some other app is relegated to "the rest" for rare occasions.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by nerdponx on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:50PM (#14383729)
This is what DuckDuckGo's "bang" searches are good for.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by vvvkkk on Saturday May 20, 2017 @03:30PM (#14383927)
Not only DDG, we developing Bubblehunt (https://bubblehunt.com) - common-based search platform, where you can create own search system without code.

Add interesting sites and resources in your profile and get your search system. Now it's public beta, you can add unlimited resources, but now 1 link - 1 indexed page. And we working on deep indexing system. We have crawler, but we need improve our platform, architecture and other.

On our platform now >150.000 resources, that handpicked and added by users.

I think when you are designer and add 1000 best resources for design - it can be better search system for this topic.

And you can provide your opinion for ANY topic. It can be more transparent, flexible, democratic search system, where people select best resources for search. And where every opinion is important and can be different.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by devrandomguy on Saturday May 20, 2017 @04:56PM (#14384307)
Sounds cool! But why do we need to use a Twitter or FB account to sign up? I am trying to eliminate the closed silos from my life right now, because they represent the polar opposite of "transparent, flexible, democratic".
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by vvvkkk on Sunday May 21, 2017 @04:14AM (#14386295)
I agree, we will soon be able to register via Google and mail. Initially, we chose to twitter or facebook to register real people. But we often hear that we need registration without social accounts, so soon we will do it :)
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by taysic on Saturday May 20, 2017 @08:59PM (#14385203)
Thats neat but it does discourage poking around at new sites and seeing what else might be out there and more useful. I remember in the early days of stackoverflow - thats how I found them... random google searches. Then I bookmarked it.. etc.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by GuiA on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:08PM (#14383542)
Whatever ends up killing Google, if anything, won't be an alternative search engine where you type something in a textbox and get results.

Something like Alexa, or other voice assistants, are probably closer to what that Google killer would end up looking like. Good thing that Google got in there early.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by amelius on Sunday May 21, 2017 @06:05AM (#14386551)
> Whatever ends up killing Google, if anything, won't be an alternative search engine where you type something in a textbox and get results.

Killing another search engine is exactly how Google got big.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by randomsearch on Sunday May 21, 2017 @07:13AM (#14386733)
There was room for a much better search engine back then.

There isn't anymore. It needs to be fundamentally different.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by sjg007 on Sunday May 21, 2017 @11:20AM (#14387667)
I think Facebook could do it.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by subsidd on Saturday May 20, 2017 @01:24PM (#14383382)
Google is really good at what it does but I absolutely agree with PG that it's not enough. And another startup coming along doing almost the same thing a little better is no good either.

I rather believe, smaller and more niche search engines like zomato(for restaurants in india) etc would get better of google very soon. Like, imagine a search engine for online learning resources with filters like beginners/intermediate/advanced, books, courses, etc; that would be so much better than what google has to offer right now given it indexes a lot of quality resources.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by johnny99 on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:32PM (#14383642)
Agreed--many domain-specific searches are already much better done by Google competitors, especially Amazon. I go straight there for information on pretty much anything I might buy. Likewise Yelp for restaurant and other local services.

This is all the more true on mobile, where the search is meant to initiate an action: buy something, make a reservation. Being able to complete a circuit in one place gives competitors in some domains a powerful advantage over Google.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by tudorw on Saturday May 20, 2017 @01:25PM (#14383384)
Also scope, why can I not see some kind of category breakdown, Paris Hilton Vs Paris the city, the fact that the search experience has not changed much over the past years says more about not wanting to break a model that works, as opposed to delivering the best experience for the user.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by kybernetikos on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:32PM (#14383644)
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by appleflaxen on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:48PM (#14383717)
I think you are right.

Personally, I find duckduckgo to be an excellent option; it does almost all of my search for me, with none of the privacy issues.

if you make it your default search, you can revert to google by using the banged g operator (g!), which will anonymize and then submit your search string to google. very seamless; very convenient; more privacy.

disclaimer: no personal affiliation with ddg

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by icecube on Sunday May 21, 2017 @02:43AM (#14386005)
When you use the "!g" bang operator, DDG is not anonymizing your search to Google. It is simply redirecting you to Google.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by hkmurakami on Saturday May 20, 2017 @08:22PM (#14385116)
In site search "powered by google" seems to be under siege by the likes of Algolia, from a lay person perspective
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by futhey on Sunday May 21, 2017 @03:34PM (#14388817)
There's going to be an interesting gap in the market if Google site search goes away. Algolia handles search elegantly for developers, but doesn't solve many of the problems (indexing, spidering, stemming, rendering, etc.) for the novice, in the way Google Site Search does.

However, my understanding is that Google CSE would basically replace site search and can be configured to operate identically, and isn't slated to disappear.

Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by PhilipA on Monday May 22, 2017 @09:02AM (#14393187)
Algolia is one competitor, but there are many others which actually does the indexing through crawling, stemming and UI rendering - ours, Cludo.com being one of them.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by observation on Sunday May 21, 2017 @02:56PM (#14388601)
Got to admit, Algolia is the only site search I've ever liked.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by altern8tif on Sunday May 21, 2017 @07:36AM (#14386807)
If I'm not mistaken, Google Site Search is targeted for shutdown by Apr 2018. They're probably refocusing their resources to other more lucrative product lines.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by graycat on Saturday May 20, 2017 @04:16PM (#14384135)
At its core, Google remains what it originally was, a computer science library project, basically a computer version of a library card catalog subject index with results sorted by a gross measure of popularity. So, as for a subject index, it's searching by key words. Okay.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by ccvannorman on Saturday May 20, 2017 @04:17PM (#14384143)
it's easy to minimize Google's accomplishment, but doing this at scale in a useful way and monetizing through advertising was revolutionary and has added billions of dollars of value to the market.
Re:Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas (2012) by graycat on Saturday May 20, 2017 @08:46PM (#14385169)
I didn't want to "minimize" but just to characterize and clarify. I'm not being critical or objecting and did end with "okay".

Page and Brin were right on the problem and the solution for the time.

While I want my startup to be still more successful, I'll thrilled if it is as successful as what Page and Brin did.