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Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pryce on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:12AM (#14356038)
Manning and Snowden, sure. Assange has quite obviously become a stooge for Putin, hardly a people's champion against government overreach.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by chriswarbo on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:53AM (#14356946)
I've been keeping tabs on Assange's position over the years; from skipping bail, to entering the embassy, to the sporadic statements from Sweden, Britain, Ecuador and Assange. From descriptions of Sweden's strict laws around rape (misunderstanding of which caused the whole "rape capital of Europe" idiocy), to the statute of limitations running out on some of the allegations, and so on.

At no point have I ever seen any mention of Russia in general, or Putin in particular, in anything related to Assange. The closest would probably Assange's assistance to Snowden in Hong Kong, who eventually went on to seek asylum in Russia.

I felt the need to comment, since your "obvious" assertion took me so completely by surprise. I honestly have no idea how someone could come to such a conclusion.

I'm in the UK (same as Assange!); maybe where you are (the US?) the media is insert its own narrative?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by mattmanser on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @07:31AM (#14357423)
This is the context (with a reply from the man himself):

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_as...

It has been reported in the UK too. I've certainly seen the allegations reported in the Guardian, for example.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pryce on Friday May 19, 2017 @05:49PM (#14379597)
Thank you; this was largely what I was referring to.

I find it deeply troubling that Assange appears to conveniently misunderstand the implications made at him: that he is acting as a willing tool of the Putin administration - not an accusation of publishing falsified documents (although i'll be surprised if it doesn't come to that), but by becoming a mouthpiece for the Kremlin to publish stolen information to advance their anti-democratic interests. Leaks are important and valuable because they empower democratic voters to make informed choices.

Wikileaks repeated derision of leaks since the election of President Trump has been particularly jarring. Leaks -and by this I mean ethically motivated ones, such as Chelsea Mannings- are an important protection mechanism in a democracy; and having a place to publish these is important; which is why I donated to wikileaks several years ago, around the time credit card companies began refusing their donations.

Supporting ethically motivated leaks to uncover wrongdoing is not at all the same thing as supporting a mouthpiece for a foreign regime that steals information and regularly murders journalists. The values that motivate me to support journalism are the ones that have prevented me from supporting Assange over the last couple of years.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by seppin on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @11:11AM (#14359205)
> At no point have I ever seen any mention of Russia in general, or Putin in particular, in anything related to Assange.

He had a TV show on Russia Today..

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by _pmf_ on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:05AM (#14357998)
> I honestly have no idea how someone could come to such a conclusion.

The Assange-Russia connection is a construct employed by the Democrats to counter the eventual fall-out when their Russian story deflates. (I.e. instead of standing there like complete morons, they can say "well, it has been Assange after all, but he has been controlled by Russia".)

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by crdoconnor on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:13AM (#14357053)
It's the US military and intelligence communities. They hate Russia a passion.

This manifests in all sorts of odd ways, the most ridiculous of which was this:

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-...

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by accountyaccount on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:10AM (#14358034)
The Russian government has been loosely tied with killing journalists and other opponents while Putin may also be amassing the largest fortune on the planet, so I don't think it's entirely unfounded.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by grandalf on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:39AM (#14358266)
> The Russian government has been loosely tied

Keep in mind that there is a massive propaganda campaign being done by the US to make Americans think Putin is evil.

Chances are, Putin is no more evil than any US president. Keep in mind that even the most ostensibly intelligent, reasonable, and articulate president in memory, Barack Obama, happily accelerated the campaign to convict journalists under the espionage act and ramped up drone executions abroad.

My point is that the US may legitimately consider Russia an adversary based on geopolitical realities (scarce resources, etc.) but none of this means Putin is more evil than a US president.

In the US there is some degree of public consent required for military action and foreign policy, and the best way to make this happen is to create a moral argument. So of course the leaders of all nations the US considers adversaries are framed as evil. But this is just meant to help achieve democratic consent, no serious policy thinkers actually believe it.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by accountyaccount on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:47AM (#14358916)
Not saying the US presidents are innocent by any means, but as far as I know they haven't been suspected of killing American journalists or political opponents.

Propaganda or not, anti-Putin Russians have a bit of a track record of untimely death.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by crdoconnor on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:00PM (#14360982)
>Not saying the US presidents are innocent by any means, but as far as I know they haven't been suspected of killing American journalists

Was the US bombing of Al Jazeera's office better because the journalists killed didn't have American passports?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by grandalf on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:58AM (#14359037)
> killing ... political opponents

Uh, what are terrorists if not political opponents?

Killing people who are deemed to hold certain beliefs without any judicial process linking them to specific criminal activity is simply killing political opponents.

This follows from the adage that war is politics with guns.

I also do not draw a major distinction between attempting to prosecute American journalists under the espionage act and simply having them killed. Arguably prosecuting them creates at least the same kind of chilling effect on journalism as a whole as murdering them does, and both leaders have the same goal of quelling dissent and intimidating reporters.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by accountyaccount on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @11:43AM (#14359548)
>I also do not draw a major distinction between attempting to prosecute American journalists under the espionage act and simply having them killed

I'm no expert, but _attempting_ to prosecute and actually killing is probably a worthwhile distinction.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by grandalf on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @12:33PM (#14360083)
> I'm no expert, but _attempting_ to prosecute and actually killing is probably a worthwhile distinction.

You're being too charitable. Both have the same intent. The more asymmetrically powerful the ruler is, the less lethal the threat needs to be to create a chilling effect.

For example, rival gang members (with power parity) must kill each-other because they lack other mechanisms of coercion and must play their only card in the moment.

Creating martyrs is always sub-optimal compared to catching and incarcerating "criminals" or forcing compliance by the threat of capture or alienation/ostracism.

As a thought experiment, which state has stronger control over its citizens, Russia or Singapore?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by chriswarbo on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:19AM (#14358647)
> I don't think it's entirely unfounded.

What don't you think is entirely unfounded? Russia/Assange connections, or anti-Russia stories in the media?

While I agree with your characterisation of Russia and Putin, it doesn't offer any support ("founding"?) for either of these, other than as an ad hominem which can be applied to lots of countries/heads-of-state.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by accountyaccount on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:46AM (#14358899)
Oh sorry, I meant the intelligence community's disdain for Russia. I realize our ethical high ground is probably like, one stair higher than Russia at best.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by tunap on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:53AM (#14358410)
One could easily substitute Russia with US and Putin with Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump; sans "largest". Also, see Berlusconi for fairness.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by accountyaccount on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:50AM (#14358938)
For like 75% of things, yes — that substitution is completely apt. But there's some evidence that Putin pushes things a bit further that doesn't seem to be borne purely of propaganda.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by boomboomsubban on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:50AM (#14356185)
Really? I see nothing obvious about it. Hell, the main people that seem to be making that claim is the CIA, an organization known to lie in the past and benefit from discrediting Wikileaks.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by sanswork on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:42AM (#14356620)
>Really? I see nothing obvious about it

Check out wikileaks twitter account some time.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by boomboomsubban on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @07:09AM (#14357307)
I went back through the past couple weeks. Absolutely not obvious.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by dogecoinbase on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:18AM (#14356294)
No... no, it's super obvious. Other people making that claim include, say, everyone reputable in the infosec community.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by rendall on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:21AM (#14356303)
[citation needed]
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by ionised on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:56AM (#14357237)
Examples? And how are you defining 'reputable'?
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by ionised on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:55AM (#14357228)
> Manning and Snowden, sure. Assange has quite obviously become a stooge for Putin

How is it obvious? Where is the evidence? All I see is the axe he has to grind with the US, which is not entirely unreasonable.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by 1001101 on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @08:23AM (#14357696)
Assange and Putin have little in common philosophically, other than a desire to challenge unchecked US power in the world. Putin challenges the unipolarity of the post Cold War world - see address to Munich Security Council 10 years go - and controls the media to bolster oligarchy. The man has a billion dollar house on his modest civil servant salary. Julian is for free markets and open information. The only places their worldviews intersect is dislike for American neocon foreign policy, and so they are both demonized in the NYT, WaPo etc. If Bernie was elected, I could easily see Julian turn on Vlad.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by nextlevelwizard on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:43AM (#14356393)
No good deed goes unpunished
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by appleflaxen on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @08:40AM (#14357807)
even if a huge amount of information about the US came from russia, the nature of leaks is that you can only leak what you have.

would it be better if more light was shed on russia? absolutely.

is the problem assange? probably not; it's almost certainly the lack of leaking by the US or other governments about russia.

the biggest responsibility assange has is making sure the leaks are true. that's impossible to do 100%, but by all accounts the accuracy is incredibly high given the size of their operation.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by odiroot on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:27AM (#14356569)
Way to push your agenda on HN.

I personally see Assange as the most important of these three. He started a revolution and enabled all the Snowdens and Mannings to reach the masses.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by hueving on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:51AM (#14356943)
Snowden reached the masses through regular journalists.

Also, you are just as equally pushing an agenda.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by grandalf on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:43AM (#14358307)
> through regular journalists

Regular journalists who had to flee the country and eventually start their own publication in order to continue to be able to publish the investigative stories spawned by the information.

Greenwald did not return to the US for quite some time out of legitimate fear that he'd be arrested and jailed immediately upon entry.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by hueving on Thursday May 18, 2017 @04:00AM (#14365561)
Sure, still had nothing to do with Wikileaks though.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by grandalf on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:30AM (#14358189)
> Assange has quite obviously become a stooge for Putin

Think about the nature of Wikileaks. Assange is a "stooge" for the opponent of any government embarrassed by leaked information.

In the same way, you might argue that if the NYT publishes an article about corruption in the US military it too is a stooge for some US enemy?

It's so strange how partisan loyalty can make people believe some pretty farfetched and illogical things.