News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order.

Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by marcell on Saturday May 13, 2017 @03:46PM (#14332632)
I'm struck by China's ability to attempt large, ambitious projects like this, compared to America's inability to do, well, anything really.

The largest infrastructure project I'm aware of in the USA is California's High Speed Rail (~$60B+), was approved a decade ago and is barely making any progress. The federal government is in complete gridlock. The most ambitious legislation passed in the last decade, the ACA, caused endless partisan warfare. Meanwhile, obvious policy wins like allowing more immigration [1] are not even discussed.

I've been following US politics for the last 2-3 presidents (going back to George W Bush), and it makes me very pessimistic. I don't see how a country can expected to be exceptional, or even above average, with politics that are so dysfunctional.

Perhaps, though, I'd have a different view if I could see things from inside, within China?

[1] http://paulgraham.com/95.html

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by taway_1212 on Saturday May 13, 2017 @05:41PM (#14333171)
Aren't the projects in China executed at complete disregard to the rights of individual citizens? I.e. if your house is in the way, sorry, we'll give you some laughable amount of money and send police over to brutalize you until you leave. Under such conditions, it's easy to make lots of change quickly (in such spirit, Stalin was even more efficient - he essentially enslaved a part of his nation via Gulags and used the free slave labor to get done quickly various massively ambitious projects around the country).

Another aspect is environment protection - it's much easier to build infrastructure if you don't mind wrecking the natural environment around it.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by jon_richards on Saturday May 13, 2017 @06:41PM (#14333381)
I haven't looked it up, but I've heard from a local that if you are displaced by a government project you will "be rich". In his eyes it was similar to winning the lottery, if less extreme.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by cheapsteak on Saturday May 13, 2017 @11:16PM (#14334039)
It does depend on the area

I remember coming across a few blocks of old densely packed single-family brick buildings in Shanghai that were about to be torn down. Each building had a large hand written banner above their entrance, half of them praising the communist party for its compassion or saying long live Chairman Mao (my interpretation was that they were hoping for mercy for being such loyal party members), the other half cussing out the party and local officials

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by pcr0 on Sunday May 14, 2017 @02:56AM (#14334594)
I think the idea was that hanging pictures of Chairman Mao all over their building would make the government look bad if they knocked it down.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by epynonymous on Sunday May 14, 2017 @11:25PM (#14338941)
false, the chinese government cannot directly use police or government agents to force people out of their homes during what's called (cai fang/house demolition). instead i've heard the use of 3rd party mercenaries to clear the way, but dont quote me on that. for the record, the government does reimburse the individuals which is quite significant, but usually the amount pales in comparison to the land rental price. typically the reimbursement is some stipend per person living under the domicile plus the right to pruchase, at a significant discount, a new home farther away. for example, say you lived in san francisco and the government was re-zoning for a highway, you'd get cash plus the right to buy something in a suburb of sacremento at a pretty nice discount. agree with some comment about it being the equivalent of a lottery.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by yadongwen on Saturday May 13, 2017 @11:39PM (#14334096)
People are not stupid..nowadays some villagers in China get ~10M USD to move away for real estate construction.. this is the average number for an entire village in Shenzhen.. you call this laughable money?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by malandrew on Saturday May 13, 2017 @05:46PM (#14333194)
Blame the fragmenting US population identity-wise, which has been accelerated by rhetoric on the left. Fewer and fewer people identify as an "American" with each passing year meaning that it is harder and harder to push policies that benefit "Americans".

I lived in China for 1.5 years in 2005 to 2006 and culturally, once you pull back the facade of language and food, it wasn't terribly different than how America felt in the 80s (earliest decade I can remember and the last decade where there was still a semblance of cultural uniformity and support for pro-America policies)

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by bairrd on Saturday May 13, 2017 @11:48PM (#14334116)
Wouldn't the more right wing desire to slash funding for government handouts be a more likely cause of stalled programs? Neoliberalism's weird incestuous desire to have 20 different planning committees write papers on the viability of public works makes things take forever, but also, constant arbitrary slashing of budgets every 4 to 8 years by those on the right puts a bullet in the head of these projects. Blaming the left misses at least 50% of the problem. Also, the left is far more into the concept of redistribution of wealth through public works, even if the centrist democrats filter that through moronic means-testing and bloated committees. Framing this as some lack-of-patriotism issue is completely missing the issues both sides cause in this situation, that would be solved by a party to the left of the useless neoliberal democrats.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by igk on Sunday May 14, 2017 @05:30AM (#14334908)
I kind of doubt that a lack of nationalism brought by "left" rhetoric is the problem if "small government" is a rallying cry of those that have "not left"as part of their identity. To pay for large projects, you need taxes.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by maxerickson on Saturday May 13, 2017 @09:33PM (#14333799)
Examples of pro "American" policies that leftist rhetoric has blocked?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by agumonkey on Saturday May 13, 2017 @09:13PM (#14333759)
Maybe because Asia has recently entered this phase while USA (and Europe) did their explosive growth long ago and now have to deal with maintenance and migration rather than exciting new developments ?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by nitwit005 on Saturday May 13, 2017 @10:12PM (#14333897)
The Republican party has been ambivalent or against new spending on infrastructure in recent history. Trump had some genuine appeal for being in favor of it. He even threw out the same $1T number: http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/306490-gop-braces-for...

Not that I actually expect that money to materialize.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by prodmerc on Saturday May 13, 2017 @05:40PM (#14333168)
I reckon it's really easy when there's one party in power that controls pretty much everything in the country - you just say it's in the nation's interest, most of the party is similar minded and will agree, and billions are immediately available for the project.

Very different than the US and EU, sadly...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by pdonis on Saturday May 13, 2017 @07:18PM (#14333480)
China's ability to do this is just an example of Cheops' Law: You can do anything you want to if you have a sufficient supply of expendable labor.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by johansch on Saturday May 13, 2017 @06:32PM (#14333345)
Dictatorship does make it easier to get things done. It seems like you americans are getting there, though.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by myrandomcomment on Sunday May 14, 2017 @03:23AM (#14334655)
Right, because all of Trumps excetive orders have been followed. The courts did not shoot them down or anything......
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by dominotw on Saturday May 13, 2017 @08:15PM (#14333618)
China doesn't have to deal with hostile entities like Iran and Wahabi arabs. I bet Chinese are proud to be Chinese, I am a naturalised US citizen and being proud of being American is seen as racist.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by maxerickson on Saturday May 13, 2017 @08:20PM (#14333627)
I am a naturalised US citizen and being proud of being American is seen as racist.

This certainly isn't a universally held belief.

I think it probably isn't a widely held belief.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by throwaway053 on Saturday May 13, 2017 @09:55PM (#14333837)
Lol most of the Chinese is under the Chinese government brainwash via state propaganda and censored internet. You obviously don't know anyone who is from Hong Kong. Ask them how they feel about being Chinese. They will spit in your face
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order by nradov on Saturday May 13, 2017 @11:29PM (#14334072)
China has to deal with India and Vietnam, which are hostile entities in at least some ways. There are many Uigurs who don't seem proud of being Chinese.
[ Parent | on HN ]