News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by schoen on Thursday May 11, 2017 @12:28PM (#14317289)
The greatest brute-force attack successes that we know of are generally reversing password hashes, because the input spaces and/or effective input spaces under some model of a password's structure are so small. People have achieved very effective results with that, often using special hardware.

The most common attack model for this is "get ahold of a hashed password list, try to reverse as many as possible, then try to see if any has re-used those passwords on other systems". Spy agencies might be doing that too. By contrast, as Bunnie says, modern algorithms have a very large safety margin so brute-force against a random key is very implausible without some significant new algorithmic insight.

So one question is, are there significant security-sensitive deployments that are still out there of obsolete stuff with too short a keylength? 1024-bit RSA, 1024-bit DH, DES, export ciphers?

If, on the other hand, it's really mostly about password hashes, where brute force has been known to be so effective, are there any other attack contexts where the ability to reverse a password hash would be useful?

Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by tptacek on Thursday May 11, 2017 @12:37PM (#14317366)
This is off the top of my head and I'd welcome correction:

Large scale password cracking has a much clearer payoff than attacks on 1024 bit DH, which have to be targeted to individual (probably TLS) connections. The RSA that most of the Internet depends on is brokered by CAs --- so, problem 1, the USG already owns CAs and doesn't need supercomputers to get valid certificates, problem 2, the most valuable "authentic" CA signatures are 2048 bit and far outside the capabilities of an IBM supercomputer, and problem 3, even after breaking that certificate you still have to target individual TLS connections to use it.

On the other hand, you don't need the world's most powerful supercomputer to effectively crack passwords.

It's not unlikely that the simplest explanation here is just "the NSA will do whatever thing secures it the largest budget". That doesn't mean they won't use those budget-enhancing projects in ways that will shock our conscience!

Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by tptacek on Thursday May 11, 2017 @03:08PM (#14318659)
A friend pointed out privately that a more realistic target for this kind of firepower is IPSEC VPNs, which overwhelmingly use finite field Diffie Hellman. So there's that.
Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by schoen on Thursday May 11, 2017 @12:50PM (#14317475)
I suppose I'm also wondering if there's an authentication protocol where the challenger actually tells the prover what hash it has to match. Does a challenger ever effectively say "Please tell me the secret whose SHA256 is equal to fcdf324499312efa027b5033513b0c0968f74ae7ba81a271ae62b3dda2cd4143 in order to proceed"?

Maybe protocols where the attacker has access to a signature over some data, but doesn't get access to the signed data in plaintext? Then the attacker could try to brute-force values of the signed data using the hash that forms the basis of the signature?

Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by tptacek on Thursday May 11, 2017 @03:29PM (#14318783)
I think you're describing most KDF attacks, of which password hashes are particular (and easy) example. I can't think of an instance of this attack that isn't password hashes that is so widely deployed that it would be economical to invest in 9-figure supercomputers to attack it, but that obviously doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by dsl on Thursday May 11, 2017 @02:35PM (#14318410)
Think about any software updates you do (Windows Update, apt, yum, etc). All these systems rely on distributing a cryptographic ally signed manifest of what each files hash should be.

If you can forge the hash of a file, or the signature on that manifest, there are hundreds of different ways you can easily replace one file for another in transit over the internet.

Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by tptacek on Thursday May 11, 2017 @03:09PM (#14318671)
We're also not a supercomputer advance away from breaking SHA2. There are hash-designing cryptographers who believe we may never break SHA2 with conventional computers.
Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by schoen on Thursday May 11, 2017 @03:23PM (#14318743)
That's a very different attack than I was looking for; you've described a second preimage attack, which would be considered a fundamental weakness of the hash. I was looking for a protocol where a comparatively small amount of signed data (let's say less than 90 bits) is kept secret, but can potentially be brute-forced on an appropriate supercomputer.
Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by ethbro on Thursday May 11, 2017 @03:07PM (#14318655)
I'd guess something like Quantum Insert + targeting unprotected connections. Which I'd imagine there are still a lot of out there (circa pre-2000).

I'd be curious if there's any older network gear that provides a hash-based rather than connection-based security model. It seems like the thing that might have seemed like a good idea to a military 40 years ago.

Re:NYU Accidentally Exposed Military Code-Breaking Computer by schoen on Thursday May 11, 2017 @01:07PM (#14317613)
> so, problem 1, the USG already owns CAs and doesn't need supercomputers to get valid certificates

I'm sure it's gotten a lot tougher out there for this kind of thing since the Comodo and DigiNotar attacks. Looking forward to more mandatory CT mechanisms!