That might be true of the big national banks with a branch in every town small and big alike but it's not true of the smaller local banks and credit unions. My checking account at my credit union is free as long as I maintain a balance of at least 5 dollars. It has branches in the area with decent hours, it has an excellent online banking site, it has excellent customer service. When I walk in to do some business I'm not bombarded with sales pressure to waste my money in exotic types of accounts that the credit union offers that do more for the bottom line of the credit union than for me. If I travel across the country I can access my money through a national network of similar credit unions without paying any fees.
To my understanding this is extremely common among credit unions in other areas.
Oh and to reply to one of your comments below, my credit was extremely poor when I opened my account. I received nothing but highly professional customer service regardless.
I just checked and my CU has a $30 overdraft fee, which can be disabled if you're willing to let things bounce.
I just bought a car, and the satellite branch could only give me $1000 in cash. I had to beg the seller to take a cashier's check for the balance.
Sometimes the systems don't integrate well and so they have a hard time figuring out which account is which.
Finally, even though my spouse is listed as a co-owner of the account, there is very little she can do at a satellite branch (or even over the telephone to the main office).
It might, OTOH, be hard with the same kind of bad account history that will stop you from being able to open a regular bank account, but that's different from regular no credit or bad credit.
Background: For the record, it was due to defaulting on a student loan. It's taken care of now, but back then I couldn't afford the 10% interest rate.
Sure you are. I have many accounts with less than that. Don't spread FUD.
Overdraft fees are easy to avoid if you just tell them to decline overdrafts.
Maybe you're a student or have multiple products (different types of accounts, credit cards, home loans, term deposits) with your bank?
I can't get a $0 / month account for everyday banking from my bank because I have a special rate home loan. They have a savings account that's $0 / month but you can only transfer from / to it via a regular $4 / month account.
* http://content.schwab.com/web/retail/public/get-started/chec... - amazing checking account, reimburses all ATM fees
* https://www.capitalone.com/bank/360checking-guide/
* https://www.aspiration.com/summit/
I do have a few other ones but they're based on relationship banking. All of the above have no fee and no minimum.
I'm not trying to say the unbanked don't have barriers. I just didn't like the assertion that free checking is impossible, since that's what leads to even people on HN paying needless maintenance fees.
For example, if you attempt to opt out, the teller might say, "but what if you are at the gas pump and can't get gas because you have opted out of overdrafts?" The subtext being, "wouldn't it be better to get enough gas to get home and in the process incur a 40 dollar fee."
A good bank let's you disable overdraft for debit card while enabling it for checks.
You may be able to find a couple credit unions that do this, but you still have minimum account balances and other hurdles that make it difficult to open an account if you have bad credit and little money (not to mention time or financial savvy).
I don't know about the credit check part; I set up with my parents years ago so that may have exempted me as I didn't have any credit history at the time.
...in the US.
In the UK its the opposite; the majority of checking accounts are free, some premium accounts charge a fee but generally come with rewards.
Overdrafts; there are fees for unarranged overdrafts, but its reasonably trivial to arrange a limit and this is generally fee-less (naturally you pay interest; mine is 1.2% calculated daily)
ATMs are largely free regardless of who your bank is.
Every credit union in my area offers free draft accounts as well, just put the $25-100 member balance into savings and you're done.
They have proven to be a criminally fraudulent organization time and time again.
For as awful as they are, Wells Fargo even has the "opportunity" checking account that gives people who have negative marks on ChexSystems a second chance at having a proper checking account. Compared to the awful re-loadable debit cards from Walmart, et. al, it's a great option and the monthly fee can be waived with 10 debit transactions per month or $500 in direct deposits.
Would I go out of my way to say I LIKE Wells Fargo? Hell no, they've done tons of shady stuff - but compared to how US Bank has screwed over every one in my family at least once they've been at a "below average" level of suck.
https://www.capitalone.com/checking-accounts/online-checking...
What's the benefit of personal banking through an actual bank over a credit union? I see none currently except it's a bit more difficult to send/receive money internationally through mine (I'm fairly sure it isn't all CU's that have this issue).
A simple google search for free checking account gave me 20+ such banks in the first result.
What? It costs money to lend your money to the bank in the US?
There are enough banks/credit unions that don't charge fees that it is more of a way of asking people not to open an account than it is a problem with access to banking.
Seriously though, these cards, like many "financial products" come with a variety of price points and fee structures. If you re-read my comment, you'll see that I didn't claim my figures were definitive, but they are definitely in the ballpark.
- It's $1 for the card, not "$5-$10"
- It's free cash withdrawal, not $3
- It's free deposits from direct deposit or government benefits, not $3
You are not approaching this remotely honestly.
As I said, there are a variety of cards on offer, from a variety of sources, but they all seem to fall within the same range cost-wise, even if the fees are structured differently.
It's as if we are arguing about cars, and you want to debate whether the pinto in question had power-windows or not, while ignoring the fact that it will explode in a routine accident.
The precise things you claimed about this card are _not true_. Those are facts. If you want to debate, use _facts_.
Nobody is denying that WalMart _could_, if they wanted to, offer a savings card which is a scam. But also consider their motives going into this, compared to the average bank:
- Wal-Mart's goal is to get people to spend money at Wal Mart. This card makes it easy to spend money at Wal-Mart.
- Banks exist entirely from interest on saved money, and on fees.
Since these customers have very little saved money (the whole point of this article), the money made is entirely from fees, unless you have another reason to get people to use the card. Wal-Mart does -- it is totally reasonable for them to run this program at-cost to attract customers. You cannot say the same for any bank.
If you want to disagree with the merits of people spending money at Wal-Mart, that's a different topic. But the evidence points to this card being a good deal for an underserved part of the population.
You are right to say that a few of the specifics I gave were not correct. I was clearly not arguing that. However, the specifics you gave were not 100% correct either. For instance, if you go to an atm machine in a wal-mart and attempt to withdraw cash, you will be charged 3 dollars. The fee breakdown I linked bears this out. A fee breakdown, I might add, that is several pages removed from the main page describing the class of card in question.
> You can withdraw cash from your card at any Walmart register or MoneyCenter. This service is free for the Walmart MoneyCard product with Cash-Back Rewards.
Where are you looking?
now click on the fees tab https://www.walmartmoneycard.com/account/faqs#fees
then click on the 'fee plan' link https://www.walmartmoneycard.com/account/legal-info#feeplan
then click on the 'view the Wal-mart money card fee plan' link https://www.walmartmoneycard.com/account/legal-info#feeplan
and you will arrive at the fee plan I linked earlier.
> Walmart Card Cashing / Withdraw cash without a fee at Walmart MoneyCenters and Customer Service desks. / No Fee
there's no fee for withdrawing cash in any Wal-Mart.
That seems to be the same as any other normal bank -- except for some credit unions that reimburse you, you don't get free withdrawals at random ATMs (I have BoA, and it's the same for me).
Yes, they do charge fees at the register, regardless your link. When I went and deposited the $200 check from Wal-mart at a register, and $197 goes in... yeah. You can link URL's all you want. But 3$ disappeared in that transaction for "reasons".
I know because I've used the plans that people here are talking about. Unlike the rest of you, I've had them. I've used and been used by them.
No shit the act of depositing and withdrawing are different. But they still get their $3 cut for each of these. How about you go spend 3 packets of $200 on this and report back your results instead?
Yeah. I have. I did the Green Dot. Pile of shit, with hidden service fees, usage fees, loading fees, fee fees. Oh yeah, YC.
Ive been on food stamps. I've been on unemployment. Even been homeless for a time. Right now, I have a significantly better job... But I still live in a trailer.... err, "Tiny House".
But anyways, good luck explaining what you mean. These people don't get it, and their societal structure means that they won't get it, even if you linked the very documents to them. It's out of their worldview.
Also, to quote from the article.
"Check-cashing outfits, payday lenders, and similar businesses are often thought of as merely preying on poor people, who, the conventional wisdom goes, tend to make bad financial decisions. Lisa Servon, a University of Pennsylvania professor of city and regional planning, offers a different angle in her recent book, The Unbanking of America: How the New Middle Class Survives. During Servon’s research working as a teller at a check casher and payday lender, consumers told her that the fee structures of nonbank alternatives were more transparent and predictable than those at conventional banks—crucial to anyone living on a budget."
I understand where you're coming from, I was in the payday loan trap at one point.. robbing peter to pay paul as it were, I made much less than 40k a year, its only in the last 5 years I've started to get north of 50k, and gotten comfortable.. now I save save save..
Indeed. And I'm still paying for it after many years. I got fucked over with payment reordering for bank-profit maximization, even with "overdraft" disabled. Didn't matter. Because whatever the bank says, is the ordained truth. And when your name gets on ChexSystems and other lists, you're done for.
My wife was did in similarly. The local credit union said she owed $120 for previous account issues that pertained to her then ex-husband. Didn't matter. The bank said it was hers, and too bad. There is no recourse. The bank/CU is god, no if's ands or buts. And suffice it to say, if you're in this position, there's no money for a libel suit (which is what it is, without a court determination).
> "Check-cashing outfits, payday lenders, and similar businesses are often thought of as merely preying on poor people, who, the conventional wisdom goes, tend to make bad financial decisions. Lisa Servon, a University of Pennsylvania professor of city and regional planning, offers a different angle in her recent book, The Unbanking of America: How the New Middle Class Survives. During Servon’s research working as a teller at a check casher and payday lender, consumers told her that the fee structures of nonbank alternatives were more transparent and predictable than those at conventional banks—crucial to anyone living on a budget."
I would agree with the transparency discussion. But it's also much more predatory. They get their pound of flesh. And this flesh is taken every time you use it. Banks do cover up and obfuscate their fee structure, but if you have the usual minimum balance, you'll never see this. Banks also rely on lack of CSR's for rich people. Because money's nothing, not a big deal. Bills are minuscule compared to income.
> I understand where you're coming from, I was in the payday loan trap at one point.. robbing peter to pay paul as it were, I made much less than 40k a year, its only in the last 5 years I've started to get north of 50k, and gotten comfortable.. now I save save save..
Yeah, it's not common to see people here who know what this all means. Fortunately, I was able to avoid the payday trap.. But not student loan trap, credit card trap, medical trap.. Right now, I have a garnishment for an injury sustained in 2008. Had insurance, but the physical therapy "wasn't approved". For a while, I was job hopping a bit and stayed ahead of the garnishments. And unemployment is ungarnishable in Indiana.
Credit cards.. Well. I had them when I had a job. Paying them down is hard without one. But it's easy money to get food and basics when you're waiting for unemployment. Fortunately, a few of them have been written off.. but that just burns another bank. At least Google Voice allows me to shitcan creditors, especially when I dont have the capability to pay.
School debt is a whole 'nther area. I got into my accident which caused my medical debt, but also caused all those classes to fail. But the school gets their cut, regardless if you do well or not. The school can do horrendously, apathetically, and cutthroat.. and they're guaranteed their money no matter what.
I did schooling at a "proper 4 year university" with frankly nothing to show for it. And I believe this burden should also be shared in part with the organization that also failed me in my educational goals. But, even this "Public University" is run much more as a Business than a public trust or institution. But likely, I'll be paying this off with garnishments in my Social Security.
In reality, this whole area is a sore point. Many people here, given the focus of HN, will never have to suffer like this. They'll also never know the pain of hurting, and not being able to fix (no medical care). They'll not know what it means to go hungry because you're waiting for the unemployment to start along with food stamps. They won't know the shame of walking into the food pantry, or using the foodstamp card. Nor will they see the looks you get, when you borrow your mother's vehicle to get the groceries... How dare you not be dressed in tatters and driving a rust-eaten beater truck.
It comes down to understanding "Us" vs "Them". I was an "Us", and remember that well. I'm on my way to being a "Them". Faking it, living the culture, understanding the nuance. But I understand, and seeing many posters here in this thread brings back all that anger of being taken advantage of, and having no power to do anything about it.
I guess the main thing I was attempting to communicate is that the facts on the ground are very different from the facts as presented in this article and elsewhere online. While it's definitely difficult to convey this in brief internet comments, I do feel there's a worthwhile discussion going on, so thanks to all involved as well as those reading. :)
It is $5/mo for accounts with less than $1000, but you're not going to get better than that at a bank.
More importantly, they aren't pulling the overdraft scams that banks are. The example right here is that the customer in question pulled $100 in overdraft fees over a $4 purchase, with a traditional bank card.