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Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by draw_down on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:02PM (#14295572)
You might say I've observed this many times in my career. I think the best move career-wise is to be one of the people who makes the new thing. Those who clean up after them, bear the brunt of their design flaws and careless mistakes, will never be recognized, appreciated, or remunerated as well. At least in my experience.

Ask yourself this: who is the most famous maintainer you can think of? (Not someone who devised an innovation and then maintained it - pure maintenance)

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by devin_lane on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:54PM (#14295980)
At the same time, a maintenance position can offer benefits as well. With the exception of emergency bug fixes, maintenance is likely to have a more stable work load which might appeal to those who want more work-life balance. Some engineers may prefer to spend their time on lower level tasks that aren't showy but are nevertheless important to get right. Working on threads/locking/synchronization may not be glamorous, but it's critical for the operation of everything else and difficult to do right.

I think we should be putting more effort into recognizing/compensating those involved in maintenance work rather than steering folks away from it. The raw technology invention is important, but the maintenance work is what makes it ship and continue to work for customers. There are also plenty of widely-used projects remain relevant only due to maintenance. Projects like OpenSSL or the Linux Kernel come to mind here.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by nostrademons on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:36PM (#14295834)
It's a risk/reward trade-off. You're never going to be famous being the maintainer, but you'll also never be viewed as crazy, nor do you have to face outright failure. You hear about the innovators who succeed; you kinda shake your heads and pity the ones who don't.
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by bussierem on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:15PM (#14295674)
I'd be very curious to know why this is getting downvoted, and if it has anything to do with the fact that YCombinator is a hub for the 'innovators' the post (and this comment) are talking about.

Don't downvote because someone hurts your feelings - that's not what this site is for, guys.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by draw_down on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:21PM (#14295734)
Aw, it's just fake internet points. I don't worry about it too much
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by WaxProlix on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:43PM (#14295889)
It's also an issue of visibility. Downvoted comments are seen less and don't get to contribute to the zeitgeist. That's sort of by design and I'm not trying to have that conversation, just saying that it's more than "aw, just internet points".
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by watwut on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:21PM (#14295732)
This is the situation where the reason behind downvotes would be appreciated. He/she said the truth - especially for startup environment.
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by mjevans on Monday May 08, 2017 @11:53PM (#14297620)
It is easy to agree.

It is difficult to tell if not-agreeing is due to a difference of opinion or the statement being off topic.

Thus while it may seem natural to cast to two directions the implicit difference between agreeing or not is actually more nuanced. The /reason/ is important in the latter case.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by flukus on Monday May 08, 2017 @08:35PM (#14296832)
> Those who clean up after them, bear the brunt of their design flaws and careless mistakes, will never be recognized, appreciated, or remunerated as well.

Next time I have a say in hiring I'm not even going to bother looking at people who have only done green fields work. They've never had the opportunity to learn from their (or others) mistakes.

> Ask yourself this: who is the most famous maintainer you can think of? (Not someone who devised an innovation and then maintained it - pure maintenance)

What do you consider innovation? Two I'd point to are Bram Moolenaar (vim) and Linus Torvalds. They both wanted to clone existing systems, not to innovate. The same goes for many other open source creators, they had a need to solve, it wasn't a creative exercise.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by majormajor on Monday May 08, 2017 @07:53PM (#14296634)
>Those who clean up after them, bear the brunt of their design flaws and careless mistakes, will never be recognized, appreciated, or remunerated as well.

It's a tradeoff. Innovating employee #10 at a big succesful startup will be better-rewarded than your average maintaining employee at, say, Facebook today, but that "maintainer" is going to be far better rewarded than innovating employee #5 at some-startup-whose-new-thing-proves-unwanted.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by dpatru on Monday May 08, 2017 @08:17PM (#14296744)
Aren't software as a service and cloud computing examples of businesses that are primarily about maintenance?

It seems to me that the best businesses are mostly about maintaining and profiting from some technology. Startups are advised to keep costs very low until they have "product-market fit", that is, until they have innovated enough to have made something that people want. After product-market fit has been achieved, marketing and sales begin to dominate; the technical innovation is over except for maintenance and incremental improvement.

Most businesses don't require innovation at all. McDonald's, for example, didn't invent the hamburger, but it has grown large because of its ability to grow while maintaining high standards.

Even businesses that we would think of as very innovative don't make their profits on continual innovation as much as growing and maintaining a standard process. YCombinator, for example, has a process of selecting great companies and nurturing them. The companies do a lot of innovating, but YC itself is basically maintaining and incrementally improving the innovation of Paul Graham and the other original founders.

Profit comes during the maintenance stage.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by adrianratnapala on Monday May 08, 2017 @09:40PM (#14297125)
Most businesses don't require innovation at all. McDonald's, for example, didn't invent the hamburger, but it has grown large because of its ability to grow while maintaining high standards.

McDonalds and its competitors have been continually innovating on the details of how to provider hamburgers and chips to customers quickly and cheaply.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by sgift on Tuesday May 09, 2017 @02:21AM (#14298086)
That's not innovating, that's optimizing, an important aspect of good maintenance.
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by lucasmullens on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:28PM (#14295779)
I completely agree. Maintenance is important, but I feel I learn more and get more career growth out from jobs that involve building new things.
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by thisrod on Monday May 08, 2017 @08:52PM (#14296901)
> who is the most famous maintainer you can think of?

The pope.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by kobeya on Tuesday May 09, 2017 @04:44AM (#14298545)
> Ask yourself this: who is the most famous maintainer you can think of?

I can think of a few, actually. Pretty much every BDFL in every open source project ever. Most famous is probably Linus Torvalds. He invented the first version of Linux, yes, but he's been primarily a maintainer not inventor ever since.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by nightcracker on Tuesday May 09, 2017 @04:52AM (#14298567)
> (Not someone who devised an innovation and then maintained it - pure maintenance)

Everything you've mentioned doesn't count.

Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by tjoff on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:34PM (#14295825)
Not saying you are wrong, but who is the most famous inventor you can think of? No no, from a startup, similar to the scenario depicted. That's right, none (+- a handful) - regardless, we aren't doing this for fame anyway (I'd imagine).
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by costcopizza on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:30PM (#14295793)
The most famous maintainer(s) I can think of are the people who paint the Golden Gate Bridge.
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by jasonlotito on Monday May 08, 2017 @06:14PM (#14296140)
Name an innovator who didn't spend any time improving, maintaining, or cleaning up their work? Name an innovator who only ever innovated? Pure innovation.
Re:Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an ove... by vic-traill on Monday May 08, 2017 @08:12PM (#14296718)
Jon Postel perhaps?