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Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by apsec112 on Sunday May 07, 2017 @04:59PM (#14287646)
An interesting comment on studying pirates, from /r/AskHistorians:

"Pirate questions are often difficult, because pirates as a group have been so heavily fictionalized -- and were often fictionalized even in the "golden age" of piracy (or shortly thereafter) -- that it becomes hard to separate reality from fiction. Indeed, there is evidence that later sailing crews, including pirates, took on behaviors that they may have read or heard that "pirates" did -- even if these accounts were fictional, meaning that fictional accounts of pirate activities actually became reality due to people acting out what they'd seen in fiction." https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/60deda/how_h...

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by d0mine on Sunday May 07, 2017 @08:05PM (#14288402)
Pirates are not unique in that respect. All mass media is heavily fictionalized. Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell(1807): I will add, that the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false. https://www.loc.gov/resource/mtj1.038_0592_0594/?sp=2&st=tex...
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by unavoidable on Sunday May 07, 2017 @09:57PM (#14288764)
OT, but, Jefferson appears to have anticipated fake news and the thirst for eyeballs.

>To your request of my opinion of the manner in which a newspaper should be conducted, so as to be most useful, I should answer, “by restraining it to true facts & sound principles only.” Yet I fear such a paper would find few subscribers. It is a melancholy truth, that a suppression of the press could not more compleatly deprive the nation of it's benefits, than is done by it's abandoned prostitution to falsehood. Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by beaconstudios on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:02AM (#14289973)
I think it's less that he anticipated fake news, and more that it's always been a problem. Journalism has always been self-serving - after all, it's a business.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by toyg on Monday May 08, 2017 @09:00AM (#14291091)
But politics and industry are similarly self-serving, and that's what journalism is supposed to balance. Everyone lies all the time, and that's always been the case - after all, they are human.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by graphitezepp on Monday May 08, 2017 @09:02AM (#14291109)
Certainly, I think it is borderline madness that entities such as facebook are being called out in the current "fake news" discussion, this is far from anything new and does not come from media centralization or the internet.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by trelltron on Monday May 08, 2017 @10:22AM (#14291666)
The actual fake news problem is purely a product of the internet though. Traditional media often contains biases of some kind, it's inevitable, but good journalists genuinely try to minimise the impact of that.

Previously the only way to get news was through these slow, controlled channels. And the people controlling these channels were responsible for the content being delivered, so if a slanderous lie was published they could be held accountable.

But with Facebook I can make up anything I want, frame it as fact, and get it seen by millions of people. Many of whom will believe it if it is convenient for them to believe it. And many of whom will never realise or accept that is a lie. And nothing bad happens to me for sharing these lies, I just make a bit of money from the ads.

This is a phenomenon that can only happen with the awesome communication enabled by the internet. And it's much worse than minor press bias.

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by ep103 on Monday May 08, 2017 @09:56AM (#14291457)
Its a level of degrees, though
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by graphitezepp on Monday May 08, 2017 @10:04AM (#14291523)
Volume of available information has certainly increased drastically, that is for sure.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by ivarious on Monday May 08, 2017 @03:00AM (#14289773)
He was Hamilton's contemporaries, of course he know a thing or two about fake news.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by panglott on Monday May 08, 2017 @11:13AM (#14292187)
It's not that all mass media is fictionalized so much as the popular stories about pirates have been fiction.

There's no need to conclude that a PBS Newshour story about Somali pirates is fake news because "Pirates of the Caribbean" is so much more popular.

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by throwaway91111 on Sunday May 07, 2017 @10:59PM (#14288946)
While that is perhaps true, you cannot assume the people around you hold similar views about truth. It is still valuable to understand the mainstream perspective.

I say this as someone heavily dissatisfied with the media I pay for.

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by TeMPOraL on Monday May 08, 2017 @02:17AM (#14289617)
> While that is perhaps true, you cannot assume the people around you hold similar views about truth.

Which is sad because really, truth is a simple concept. For some reason, many people don't feel like their beliefs should in any way correspond to reality.

> It is still valuable to understand the mainstream perspective.

I agree that the role of media as social objects (shared things to talk about) is important, but there's a tradeoff here - the more junk you put in your head, the easier it is to hold a conversation with random strangers, but you're still puttting junk in your head. Is socializing really worth it?

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by bimjam27 on Monday May 08, 2017 @01:22AM (#14289420)
Interesting because alot of modern day pirates/hackers are exactly the same. Co-opting their identities from movies like "Hackers" and "Sneakers". If you read any of the interview sections of Phrack articles these movies and their aesthetics are all referenced heavily. I think it was ironic/toungue in cheek at first but then turned into something sincere as new generations looked up to the old without context.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by harryf on Monday May 08, 2017 @02:18AM (#14289622)
Great point. V for Vendetta / Anonymous would be the most visible example
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by efdee on Monday May 08, 2017 @06:08AM (#14290414)
Indeed. I'm quite sure many of today's Anons wouldn't even know that the mask is a symbol of failure in their own lore.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by blincoln on Monday May 08, 2017 @10:26AM (#14291709)
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not a member of Anonymous, but I've read the graphic novel version of _V For Vendetta_ as well as seen the film, and I didn't get that impression at all.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by InitialLastName on Monday May 08, 2017 @12:14PM (#14292922)
The mask didn't originate with V for Vendetta. It comes from a likeness of Guy Fawkes, whose 5th of November (Gunpowder) plot to blow up the British parliament and impose a Catholic theocracy was thwarted.

To celebrate that failure, Brits light fireworks and burn dummies wearing that mask every 11/5.

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by Nadya on Monday May 08, 2017 @03:37PM (#14294851)
Yes, but the `Anonymous`/4chan usage is inspired from V for Vendetta, at least to my knowledge of chan history. It just so happens to be the Guy Fawkes mask which holds another meaning for Brits. It might change how some people, especially British people, see the mask but that isn't the intention.

For example, a pink triangle means something different now than it did during the 40s and pointing to its historic usage instead of its reclaimed/new usage would be disingenuous and missing the point of how it is being used in the modern context. Pointing to Guy Fawkes instead of Vendetta for Anonymous' usage of the mask is missing the point.

Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by aqsalose on Monday May 08, 2017 @06:21PM (#14296181)
However, Alan Moore and David Lloyd did not choose that V wears Guy Fawkes mask by coincidence.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by efdee on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @09:08AM (#14349220)
The use of the mask finds its roots in the Epic Fail Guy meme, a character destined to fail at anything he does. At one point EFG finds a V for Vendetta mask in a trashcan and starts wearing it.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by qznc on Monday May 08, 2017 @03:36AM (#14289897)
Still, the actual pirates (the naval boarding ones, for example in Nigeria) are not romantic. They have families at home and would prefer a peaceful life.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by bitwize on Sunday May 07, 2017 @07:52PM (#14288348)
Well, that's something they have in common with ninjas then. :) Ninjas had lots of rumored abilities and practices ascribed to them which they didn't really have, and the ninjas of the day did nothing to counter the rumors. In fact they helped spread the rumors since it enhanced their fearsome reputation to do so.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by dhimes on Monday May 08, 2017 @09:45AM (#14291371)
Also: Samurai. They're know for their Bushido code of honor but there seems to be evidence that the code came about much later, perhaps as a result of the elite trying to get some control over them.
Re:A lot we know about pirates is not true, and a lot of wha... by Sniffnoy on Sunday May 07, 2017 @05:15PM (#14287721)
A note, you seem to have linked to the whole thread, rather than the specific comment you mention: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/60deda/how_h...