News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by js2 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:14AM (#14231916)
This article primarily uses "juice" as a synonym for "commercial fruit juice." In addition, it's suggesting that it's not healthy/necessary to drink such commercial fruit juice daily.

If you're consuming smoothies which use the entire fruit/veggie that you'd normally eat, and you're not adding sweeteners, and you don't have any health issues that might be related to excess calories in your diet, then no need to attack the article, it's not addressing you.

But even then, note that the article still makes the point that people tend to over-consume when drinking their calories as opposed to chewing them.

As an example of one of my smoothies that I make at home that I don't think this article would take issue with: 100g frozen blueberries, 1 medium (126g) banana, 14g raw almonds, 100g spinach, 14g whey protein powder, 6g unsweetened cocoa powder, 10g fish oil, water. This is about 440 calories (18g fat, 56g carbs, 22g protein) according to My Fitness Pal.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by rsync on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:13PM (#14232592)
"14g raw almonds"

You probably already know this, but others reading may not:

Almonds have a glycemic index of zero.

They are a great addition to a fruit smoothie since, in addition to the fiber of the whole fruit, you knock down the (already low) glycemic index of the entire (liquid) meal.

I wonder if you've considered almond butter ? Most almond butters on store shelves contain sugar, which would disqualify them, but many grocery stores (including whole foods) allow you to grind your own in-store ... I find it much more convenient to add almond butter to smoothies rather than almonds themselves ...

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by GordonS on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:14PM (#14232990)
> Almonds have a glycemic index of zero

Do you have a reputable source for this? Almonds contain carbohydrate, so surely they have some effect of blood glucose?

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by hawkice on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:28PM (#14233072)
So, this is a great question to which I had no answer (not about almonds specifically, but I've heard similar claims for e.g. hummus). I still don't have any answer, but I believe the answer lies in the realm of "glycemic index is a complex measure that doesn't exactly match any simple model for what it would be". For instance, fructose has a pretty low glycemic index (about the same as kidney beans, actually), and it's literally sugar.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by narrowrail on Monday May 01, 2017 @04:36PM (#14241310)
From wikipedia, "glycaemic index (GI) is a number associated with a particular type of food that indicates the food's effect on a person's blood glucose."

Because glucose is a sugar, you seem to be confusing it with fructose (another sugar, 5-carbon vs 6-carbon). The glycaemic index specifically looks at one specific sugar -> glucose. Sugars aren't intrinsically bad, but often times they are removed from their origins which contain other constituents that help our bodies digest them (all sugar, no pulp).

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by ice109 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:26PM (#14233063)
yea that's not true exactly because of what you say:

http://www.vitalhealthzone.com/nutrition/nutrition-questions...

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by js2 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:34PM (#14232720)
Raw almonds are my favorite snack, just ahead of olives (which funny enough, for a long time I couldn't stand the taste of). Indeed, my problem is not eating too many!

I make my smoothies in a Vitamix. It has no trouble with the raw almonds or anything else I put in it. Aside: for a long time I didn't want to buy a Vitamix because of its cost and size. We started with a Magic Bullet which I found nothing but frustrating. It was constantly leaking. Eventually I gave it away and bought the Vitamix S30. It is a superior product, and it's a joy to use something which is both well designed and well built.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by joshschreuder on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:57PM (#14234619)
Olives are one of those things that seem like an acquired taste to me.

As a mid-20s western guy I hate the flavour, and it's not something I've ever seen young people eat. But older folks seem to love them. Maybe it's a rite of passage when growing up that eventually you come to like olives :)

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by ratmice on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:28AM (#14231985)
a) It is a lot easier to consume much more juice than one would normally consider eating when juiced

b) just because you are consuming both the juice and the fiber still, does not make them equivalent, the post-consumption breakdown of fiber acts as a time release while pre-consumption fiber breakdown acts as a sugar dose.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by js2 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:55AM (#14232116)
I don't disagree with you, and I don't think I made an assertion to the contrary. My "if you're consuming smoothies..." statement is very carefully qualified and I intended it as a response to comments elsewhere in this thread trying to poke holes in the article, which I think on balance is delivering a good message.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by ratmice on Sunday April 30, 2017 @12:23PM (#14232279)
Indeed, I took more issue with what you didn't say, than what you did. However I still disagree with the point about it being specific to "Commercial fruit juice", particularly when it comes to home squeezed citrus/orange juice.

The "I juice it myself so its healthy", mentality is easy to get carried away with, Cannot resist the bluecumber.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by deafcalculus on Monday May 01, 2017 @01:47AM (#14235809)
Smoothies aren't as good as eating the whole fruit! Fruit is better than juice because it has fiber. The insoluble fiber becomes something like a mesh inside the intestine and prevents food from getting digested too soon. When you put the fruit through the blender, the insoluble fiber is ripped apart and you lose a lot of its benefit. Dr. Lustig, an endocrinologist at UCSF, talks about this in one of his lectures. It's on YouTube, but I can't remember exactly which lecture.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by narrowrail on Monday May 01, 2017 @04:50PM (#14241443)
I had not heard this idea of crushing fiber with a blender, but it's reasonable. I wonder if just using a spatula to mix without ripping the fruit would be better? I guess you couldn't drink it.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by toddmorey on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:32PM (#14233092)
I agree that they seem to be covering "commercial fruit juice." But it's an interesting question as to how chewing fruit in its natural form compares to blending it. The second question would be: why make juice at all, then? I guess the answer there is as a vehicle for the fish oil, protein powder, etc. I'm sure there's a bit of psychology at play, too: I think our drink concoctions appeal to the alchemist in each of us.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by guelo on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:22PM (#14232645)
You can do an experiment, if you eat those ingredients whole do you feel more full than when you blend them up into a smoothie?
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by js2 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:55PM (#14232860)
I haven't exactly done this exactly, but this smoothie on its own holds me over for easily 4 hours.

Last year I was doing a partial fast twice a week where I'd limit myself to 600 calories on those days. I'd have this smoothie mid-morning along with black coffee and water. In the evening, I'd have a large salad of 150 calories. (It's amazing how large a salad you can make on a budget of 150 calories if you get creative. For example, I'd use kimchi in place of salad dressing. Boy did my family hate me.) Anyway, I was definitely hungry by the evening, but I would estimate no more so than if I'd had it as a meal. One thing I didn't try was splitting the smoothie in two and consuming it as breakfast and lunch.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by curiousGambler on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:06PM (#14232938)
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for the partial fast? And how did it affect you?

+1 on the giant salad for minimal calories! If you don't use traditional, calorie packed dressings you can really fill up on a small amount of calories since lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers are such low calorie foods.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by js2 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @05:39PM (#14233988)
Fast was just an experiment. A colleague had done it for a year and I was curious. I lost about 8 lbs over 4 months. Other than that, uncertain of health effects.

The idea for it and some health claims are in a BBC documentary you can find online: "Eat Fast and Live Longer."

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by mcphage on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:51PM (#14233480)
> I'd use kimchi in place of salad dressing.

Whaaaaaaaaaaa? That's brilliant! Definitely going to try this.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by jrjf940 on Monday May 01, 2017 @08:14PM (#14242964)
>One of the habits that she identified as healthy was drinking freshly squeezed juice, which she saw as a virtuous food, every day.

fresh squeezed juice. They point out that the juice w/o the fiber IS the problem. So that includes smoothies with any fruit juice.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by CalChris on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:23AM (#14231958)
No, the articles says The truth is that fruit juice, even if it is freshly pressed, 100 percent juice, is little more than sugar water.
Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by js2 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:45AM (#14232060)
Followed just a few sentences later by the commercial juice industry is happy to take advantage of this idea [that juice is healthy].

If you want to attack the article, you can pull out bits and pieces of it to do so, but it's written by diabetes specialists who are responding to misconceptions about juice that they see in their clinic every day. The vast majority of their clients are drinking commercial fruit juice, not carefully measured made at home smoothies.

I'd have appreciated reading this article years ago before I knew anything about nutrition and thought the smoothies I was drinking from Jamba Juice were good for me. They weren't and contributed to my being 40 lbs overweight at the time.

So if this article gets a few people to reconsider (or even think about) their conceptions about juice, then bravo.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by sn9 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @08:39PM (#14234758)
Pressed juice is still juice.

Blended fruit retains everything that makes fruit good for you, including the fiber and pulp.

Juice doesn't, effectively making it sugar water with some nutrition.

Re:Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy by DanBC on Sunday April 30, 2017 @08:41PM (#14234765)
> If you're consuming smoothies which use the entire fruit/veggie that you'd normally eat, and you're not adding sweeteners, and you don't have any health issues that might be related to excess calories in your diet, then no need to attack the article, it's not addressing you.

Be aware that any public health organisation trying to get people to eat more fruit and vegetables will also tell people not to drink smoothies. So, this article is in fact aimed at people blending their fruit and veg.

(There's a discussion to be had about the evidence base, but that's true of most of the posts in this thread).

Here's the English version, but this is common across countries:

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/FAQs.aspx#juices

> A: Unsweetened 100% fruit juice, vegetable juice and smoothies can only ever count as a maximum of one portion of your 5 A Day.

> For example, if you have two glasses of fruit juice and a smoothie in one day, that still only counts as one portion.

> Your combined total of drinks from fruit juice, vegetable juice and smoothies should not be more than 150ml a day – which is a small glass.

> For example, if you have 150ml of orange juice and 150ml smoothie in one day, you'll have exceeded the recommendation by 150ml.

> When fruit is blended or juiced, it releases the sugars which increases the risk of tooth decay so it's best to drink fruit juice or smoothies at mealtimes.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/Whatcounts.aspx

> Some portions only count once in a day:

> 150ml fruit juice, vegetable juice or smoothie. Limit the amount you drink to a combined total of 150ml a day. Crushing fruit and vegetables into juice and smoothies releases the sugars contained in the fruit and vegetables, which can cause damage to teeth.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/Portionsizes.aspx

> Unsweetened 100% fruit juice, vegetable juice and smoothies can only ever count as a maximum of one portion of your 5 A Day.

> For example, if you have two glasses of fruit juice and a smoothie in one day, that still only counts as one portion.

> Smoothies include any drink made up of any combination of fruit/vegetable juice, puree or all the edible pulped fruit or vegetable.

> Your combined total of drinks from fruit juice, vegetable juice and smoothies should not be more than 150ml a day – which is a small glass.

> For example, if you have 150ml of orange juice and 150ml smoothie in one day, you'll have exceeded the recommendation by 150ml.

> When fruit is blended or juiced, it releases the sugars which increases the risk of tooth decay so it's best to drink fruit juice or smoothies at mealtimes.

> Whole fruits are less likely to cause tooth decay because the sugars are contained within the structure of the fruit.

> Watch out for drinks that say "juice drink" on the pack as they are unlikely to count towards your 5 A Day and can be high in sugar.