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Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by marcus_holmes on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @11:31PM (#14200221)
I lived on the Isle of Man, where there are very strict 30mph speed limits in the towns, but no speed limits outside the towns.

The roads there are twisty, with dry stone walls either side, mostly. Except for the mountain roads that are spectacular.

Then there's the TT, when bikers from all over the world come there to race, and about a dozen or so die each year. Apart from that, though, road fatalities are not exceptional.

Driving there is great, because you don't have the constant worry of "am I going over the limit?" or "what is the limit here?". You stop worrying about the number, or checking your speedo, and concentrate on driving safely on the road. How fast or slow you're going becomes irrelevant, it's all about how you drive on the road you're given.

The speed limit is as much a target as a limit. If the limit is 60 then there's a feeling that "well, they know their business, it must be safe to drive at 60 here". What is authorised becomes advised. No-one can blame you if you lose control due to speed, because you were driving under the speed limit so it must have been OK.

With no limits, it becomes your responsibility to decide what's safe. And yes, there are people who think they can drive safely much faster than they actually can. But they they tend to head for the mountain roads where's less traffic to get in their way. There's also less macho bullshit around it because there's no "rebel cred" in driving over the limit when there is no limit.

Conversely, driving slowly in town is accepted, because it's clearly done for good reasons. Speeding in town isn't socially acceptable (if you want to go fast, head to the mountain and do your worst). People drive more safely, and more courteously because they have responsibility.

It's a great system. I wish we adopted it here in Australia.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by wobbleblob on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @03:30AM (#14201144)
A friend of mine lives, well lived, on the Isle of Man. He's been in a rehabilitation center on the mainland for the past year, after being hit by a Ferrari driving at entitled velocity.

Why do you even need cars there? Everything is within cycling distance.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by marcus_holmes on Thursday April 27, 2017 @12:45AM (#14209230)
horizontal rain... umbrellas don't survive there. I would hate to cycle there
Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by TomMarius on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @04:00AM (#14201267)
I've been a "victim" of speed limit. When I was early 18 (just got my license, European), I crashed my car because I passed a speed limit sign, but there was a sharp left turn that wasn't visible. I went exactly the speed limit, thinking "they would put a lower one here if it wasn't absolutely safe" - and immediately lost control of my car in the turn.

Nowadays, I ignore any speed limits. I'm frequently speeding when it's safe, and I'm very frequently going slow enough to people flash lights or honk at me - no crashes since that.

I of course recognise I was at fault and don't blame the speed limit - I should've known to adjust my driving regardless of the limit. However this way of thinking isn't uncommon and while the speed limit isn't at fault, it had its part in causing the crash.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by gideonparanoid on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @04:21AM (#14201366)
It is a speed /limit/, it absolutely does also require you to make judgements for yourself, but not to drive above that speed.

It would be unreasonable (& annoying) to have different speed limits for every different corner/stretch of road. There's also considerations such as the weather & lighting conditions to take into account (& while I have seen signs on motorways for variable speed limits based on those in Europe, you cannot expect every case to be covered).

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by TomMarius on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @06:46AM (#14201976)
In many European countries, there actually is a speed limit before almost every turn or intersection that's in or near a bigger city, and thus people begin to think like this, which is the point - the speed limit is so overused that people stop thinking for themselves.

The problem of speed limit overuse (recognized even by our officials) is a lot smaller in western Europe, if you got your experience from their roads.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by k-mcgrady on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @06:27AM (#14201903)
>> this way of thinking isn't uncommon

I seriously doubt this. It's a speed 'limit' not a speed 'target'. I can't fathom how you could think 'sign says x, I'm sure if I go that speed I can get around this sharp turn safely'. How strict were the driving tests where you learned?

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by Klover on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @01:05PM (#14204864)
>How strict were the driving tests where you learned?

Please be aware that the rather strict driving test in the Netherlands means that you are trained for at least 40 odd hours, or let's call it 60 hours on average, to drive at the speed target. Going too slow means you're unable to handle the traffic, and going too fast is illegal, so this strictness can instruct people to drive at the speed target.

Yes, I did name them targets, because that's what they're used for. It looks like a target, it acts like a target, it's called a target. Legally, they're limits, but I don't think you'll ever see many people driving at the limit. Always at least 1 or 2 km/h faster.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by TomMarius on Thursday April 27, 2017 @03:12AM (#14209764)
I failed my first try because a guy in a BMW didn't wait until I pass before he turned left and I waited - they said I was too unsure and thus failed.

Same experience with the speed target/limit in the Czech republic.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by k-mcgrady on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @04:45PM (#14206810)
Sure but if you have had 40 hours training you know to slow down when you see a bend and not to continue at the target speed. Hell if you've had zero hours training but have been in a car before you know that.
Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by TomMarius on Thursday April 27, 2017 @03:15AM (#14209779)
If there's a lower limit before every turn you've ever encountered, many people don't even think about it.
Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by TomMarius on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @06:45AM (#14201973)
I don't have any hard evidence, though a lot of people I know think like this - which is why I wrote the comment.

In many European countries, there actually is a speed limit before almost every sharp turn that's in or near a bigger city, and thus people begin to think like this.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by k-mcgrady on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @06:51AM (#14202003)
Interesting it's not something I've noticed before. I'm 99% we don't have these in the UK (although on country roads there will sometimes be a sign indicating a sharp bend).
Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by TomMarius on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @06:54AM (#14202013)
The problem of speed limit overuse is small or non-existent in western Europe, but common in central and eastern Europe - it's even recognized by our officials as a huge problem causing crashes.

Not only there are speed limits before sharp turns, but unnecessary small limits in regular turns or on straight motorways, which makes people go over the limit even when the limit makes sense.

Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by rorykoehler on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @06:14AM (#14201853)
Cycling must be a nightmare.
Re:Is Every Speed Limit Too Low? by marcus_holmes on Thursday April 27, 2017 @12:52AM (#14209257)
yeah, but not because of the roads. It rains a lot and is very windy, and also very hilly. It's not a cycling kind of place.

Public transport is good, though.