United calls that "Economy Plus". Not sure the price structure matches what you say:

https://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/products/travelproducts/Pag...

Exit row seats are also often first available to members of various frequent flyer programs and usually have a modest amount of extra legroom.

First: thanks for the link, interesting to know that there's kind-of something out there for this.

From the FAQ on the linked page:

> Who can purchase Economy Plus seating? All customers who are not traveling on a Basic Economy ticket may purchase Economy Plus seating subject to availability. Advance complimentary access to Economy Plus is available to Premier® Platinum members and higher (for themselves and up to eight companions), and Premier Gold members (for themselves and one companion). Premier Silver members and one companion enjoy complimentary access to Economy Plus seating, when available, upon check-in.

I just... what is this even? How about just putting the legroom on ticket sale data—including for sales on 3rd party sites—and selling different ones at different prices? I don't want to become an expert on all this weird tricking-you-into-spending-more-money-with-us-than-you-should-if-you're-not-super-careful crap for every airline I might fly with, I just want to buy a ticket and fly every now and then, and I'm willing to pay for more legroom. How would I even begin to comparison shop for this upgrade vs. other airlines? I know the answer is "you're not supposed to because they're trying to screw you" but that's an awful answer.

This is precisely where regulation is useful: transparency in WTF you're buying and standards in how it's presented so competition can work its magic without consumers having to learn a bunch of otherwise-useless junk (the worst of which is "how to navigate systems and jargon that are specific to one vendor") in order to confidently make a simple transaction.

I don't think we need more regulation here. All of this information is discoverable without a huge amount of effort. Third-party aggregators may not make it obvious, but that's their fault, not the airlines'. That the aggregators don't bother showing this info either means they're ignoring an important market segment (in which case, business opportunity for you!) or few people care about this stuff.

Airlines don't want you to comparison shop for amenities, because then those will become a race to the bottom as well, and airlines will gradually reduce the amount of legroom available in Economy+ until it's just barely above regular Economy.

Anyway, basically all the major airlines except Southwest offer this. It's Economy+ on United, Delta Comfort on Delta, Premium Economy on American, Main Cabin Select on Virgin America, Even More on JetBlue, etc. I found this out through looking at the front page of each of their websites. Prices range from $40-50 (additional) per seat per leg. You can select it upon seat selection at the airline's website (which is where an aggregator will take you, anyway): the extra economy+ seats that are available are shown together with the price for the update, and you just have to click on them and it will adjust your fare accordingly.

So now you know. Incidentally, this is pretty good evidence of this subthread's point: you expected to be told all of this by going through a 3rd-party aggregator where you can search by cost. If you are representative of the average American consumer (which is probably pretty likely), it's no wonder the airlines compete on cost.

> So now you know. Incidentally, this is pretty good evidence of this subthread's point: you expected to be told all of this by going through a 3rd-party aggregator where you can search by cost. If you are representative of the average American consumer (which is probably pretty likely), it's no wonder the airlines compete on cost.

They should probably work to ensure it's possible to accurately filter by other criteria on aggregators then, if they actually care about getting people to shop based on other features. They choose not to make any effort there, because even small levels of obfuscation enable extraction of rents. It weakens the ability of the market to improve quality and reduce cost, the more difficult it is to gauge quality.

If they cared the tickets would be per-seat and tell you the properties of that seat in some machine-parseable manner, not be upgrades (that change the seat you're in) that may or may not be available at all depending on how you bought your ticket, whether you're part of some special program, and so on. Ah, travel—the one context in which not-at-all-rich people are encouraged to temporarily act like petty nobility. Almost certainly another trick to extract more money from people. No accident it's also an industry that's managed to make something inherently amazing and awe-inspiring resemble one of the only-moderately-unbearable parts of hell.

At least with your Amex Platinum card and all those points you've racked up you can be baron in the Fourth Circle for a day.

Not to be rude, but it doesn't sound like you fly much.

You can buy economy plus unless you got a super discounted flight. Frequent fliers get first access depending on their level.

Just use google.com/flights (lists leg room data), or just hit the "i" mark on each fare and you can usually see the actual leg room on the ticket.

Don't bother using aggregators to buy the ticket. They're useful at finding fares, but the same rates are usually available through the airline's site as well.

It's not that hard. You don't need to dig into the implemetnation, just look at the interface: when you book a ticket, you are presented with the option of purchasing upgraded seating (economy plus, bulkhead, exit row -- not just on United, it's on most airliens). If you don't like the options available, cancel your purchase (within 24h of purchase)

Airlines are optimized for frequent fliers, which is why their copy isn't very approachable if you are thinking from the point of view of making arbitrary choices. Frequent fliers don't do that generally. They operate on making decisions that will last at least a year like what ticket class or flier program to use.

> Optimized for frequent fliers

Rather, frequent fliers out of necessity soon learn these things, and start to speak the language(s) that the airlines use instead of language that muggles understand. Even frequent flyers don't always instantly know why I don't fly in row 1, though I do fly first class.

It's easier to know what you're getting when you buy a TV than it is to do so when buying an airline ticket, even if you buy the TV on impulse, and even though TV vendors are looking to extract as much as they can from TV buyers.

Exactly. A ticket for a seat on an aircraft has no justification for being more complex or confusing to buy than, say, an apple. It ought to be way less complex than apples, in fact, since they can rot or suffer from poor storage and so on.

It is that simple. Punch in your departure and destination airports, click click click, done.

You want to control every detail of the result while also spending as little money as possible? That takes some effort, with both flights and apples.

Actually, getting the best price for a flight is easier than with apples. I'd have to spend all day calling (or visiting!) stores in my area to see who has the best price for apples, since most stores don't make that information available online in any form. Accomplishing the same for a flight takes literally thirty seconds.

seatguru.com is where I go to check seat dimensions. Spirit has a seat pitch (the distance between rows) around 28", two inches shorter than major carriers. And few of their seats recline. You get what you pay for..

I can't fit in there - I'm 6' tall (183cm), so I fly Delta and buy their Comfort+ seat upgrade. But I'll also look at their 1st class fare, because after checking a bag and getting the upgrade, sometimes going all the way to First is only like $100 more (and the bag check is free, and you're first off the plane, and first to get your bag at the carousel).

I'm not remotely clear what you're confused about. Economy Plus is a simple purchase-time option on United flights. When you choose your seat, they have all of the options right there.

I otherwise agree with the sentiment that the data should be more available (I spend way too much time on SeatGuru trying to find plane/seat info before booking), and I desperately wish we had an option to pay for a few more inches of leg and elbow room (NOT just legroom), but Economy Plus is about as straightforward a program as it gets in the airline industry.

In my experience, Delta and Alaska both offer exactly that. Basically, they're charging extra for the exit rows. I usually find that they're available whenever the flight isn't close to full.

That's where status comes into play & has definite benefits.

Basic status on AA will give you economy plus seating for free. HUGE for anyone over 6'

> Seriously, show me where I can pay an almost-reasonable (say, 10-15%) upgrade fee for 3-4" more legroom over whatever the lowest is they can get away with

JetBlue and Delta both offer this.

JetBlue has plenty of leg room anyway, I'm 6' FWIW and I find paying for the upgrade to be needless. Delta it can be worth it for longer flights.

The problem is comparison shopping for these upgrades. Is this flight eligible (i.e. are there any upgrades left on this aircraft)? Is this ticket eligible (see my other comment about United's bizarre rules, some tickets being wholly ineligible for the upgrade—how do you know that stuff for all the airlines you might choose for a given flight?) How much leg room is there to begin with? How does that compare to the flight I was on last time? How (if at all) does that change if this is a flight "by" major carrier X but actually serviced domestically by subcontractor Y with the international portion handled by carrier Z? How likely am I to realize my upgrade in an industry where I might not even fly on the flight I paid for at all? All of this must be investigated on a carrier-by-carrier and flight-by-flight basis, from what I can tell.

Where can I filter flights from multiple carriers to not show tickets providing under some level of legroom?

I wonder if an old-fashioned travel agent could take care of that for you. Failing that, maybe the concierge service many credit cards offer, or even something like getmagic.com.

I haven't tried these myself, but it seems like one of those things you can pay some money to get someone else to worry about it for you.

Yep, travel agents can do that for you.

I'll forward the suggestion of having this information (seat dimensions, extra legroom) more readily available to agents when booking (I work for the largest "traditional" travel agents group remaining).

Nice!

I haven't used a travel agent in ages. What's the experience like these days? Are they something that would be good for the average Joe like myself to use, or is it more of a specialized niche now? I understand you may be biased, but I'd still be interested in the inside perspective.

I'm not really much of an insider, I haven't used a travel agent either ! I'm just a developer who has recently entered the travel industry :)

What I do think is that you're not getting much of a discount going online (and agencies get their own exclusive deals too) - what you do get buying with an online travel agency (OTA) (and I personally like) is more control, but at the expense of advice and experience. If you're comfortable taking the risk of taking wrong choices and like setting your own itinerary, online offers more "freedom". However, it seems that customers 50 and over value the agents' experience a lot. Personally, there are several things I would have missed if I booked flights myself: legroom, connection times, the fact that you need to have a ticket be the same "segment" to get protected if things go wrong - although separate "segments" can be cheaper, etc., and, most importantly, someone to call if things go wrong (as they unfortunately often do in travel), who will have more leverage with the supplier than a mere customer. Of course, there must be good and bad agents, as with all services. Also, agents don't make much money (if any) on air tickets anymore, they rely on hotel and cruise and other ancillary services to make their money (or a service fee).

I've been told that top travel agents are worth their weight in gold (and are paid as such!), the guys working for the Elite travel division make the lives of business and luxury travel a lot better, they know the arcane commands in the mainframe-terminal GDSs by heart and can do permutations that are simply not allowed in most web interfaces.

You're more of an insider than I am, so thanks for the perspective. Stuff like "segments" and help when things go wrong certainly sound compelling.

Travel agents these days are only useful if you're planning on doing a very complex trip (international, multiple stops) or if you need to make complicated changes to your itinerary. Most of the data they have is comparable to what's available on ITA.

"Basic Economy" is United's new bargain-basement fare class, meant to compete with similar offerings from other airlines. I don't think it even existed a month or two ago, which might be why this ineligibility to choose Economy Plus confusion comes from. At least historically, you could always pay for an Economy Plus seat no matter when or how or where you bought your seat.

I don't get your complaint. Pretty much every domestic airline I've flown in the last few years has Economy Plus or something similar, which is an economy seat with extra leg room. You just select it at check-in and pay $30-$75. What's so hard about that?