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Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by geofft on Saturday April 08, 2017 @12:01AM (#14065236)
Calexit scares me because it's effectively abandoning the country; California can survive much more than the rest of the country can. It might be unfair to place that burden on California, sure, but it seem indisputable that leaving would destabilize the remaining United States in many ways - which won't be good for either Californians or anyone else. What's to stop New York, for instance, from also leaving once it realizes that the 50/50 red/blue balance is permanently gone? And what is a US without California and New York, on the world stage? Is it still treated like the US?

The process of figuring that out, and perhaps of Canada becoming the world's great superpower (with California and with the bordering state of New York) and essentially needing to disarm a terrified and well-armed US, seems like it cannot possibly be a better plan than California just getting the US to do what it wants in approximately any other way. No one will win except Raytheon and Palantir.

And even if it doesn't get that bad, I would expect a US without California to leave both NATO and NAFTA, either out of spite, out of a clear dominance of the political voices that are currently NATO-skeptic and NAFTA-skeptic (but are being held in check by California's votes), or out of simply not having enough of an economy left where either of them make sense.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by CalRobert on Saturday April 08, 2017 @04:53AM (#14066037)
Calling the US a country may make sense, but I increasingly don't feel it's a nation. I feel more foreign in Missouri than in Ireland. I feel no more kinship or commonality with people from the US than from liberal western democracies (Canada, most of Europe, etc).

Also, California is arguably occupied. It is ruled by a federal government that lost an election by any reasonable measure. It lacks the right to secede due to a federal constitution which violates the generally acknowledged right of peoples to self-determination. Do you think three quarters of the states would ever vote to let the Californian cash cow secede? They milk it for all it's worth, all while complaining that California doesn't know what we're doing.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-f...

I left, but the first thirty years of my life were in California and it's a great place. It could be a lot greater without being yoked to an oppressive system that minimizes its vote, steals its cash, and actively opposes its aims in fields ranging from the environment, to immigration, to education, among others. We should stop pretending the US is united by anything more than coercion by the small states over the large. Would an independent California freely choose to join the US today? If not, perhaps we should reconsider whether this relationship is healthy. Perhaps other states should as well.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by themgt on Saturday April 08, 2017 @08:03AM (#14066522)
> It is ruled by a federal government that lost an election by any reasonable measure

The electoral college system our country has used for nearly 250 years is no longer a "reasonable measure" of who won the election?

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by dsr_ on Saturday April 08, 2017 @08:44AM (#14066634)
It is consistent to say that it never was; it just happened to usually align with the popular vote.

Suppose there was a little Eastern European country where the election procedures were the same as the USA's. We would certainly criticize them every time the popular vote said A and the weird political procedure said B and got to overrule the popular vote.

In fact, if they had oil or it were otherwise advantageous, we would likely invade, fracture them into smaller countries more amenable to our interests, and then abandon them.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by CalRobert on Saturday April 08, 2017 @09:46AM (#14066865)
Correct. It never really was, but as the country's polarization increases it becomes less and less a reflection of the people's will. If three quarters of the country can vote for you and the other candidate _still_ wins, that's a deeply flawed system. (discussion at http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=569298)

Until this century we mostly just got lucky, with only two misalignments in the 19th century.

We essentially have a rotten borough problem, though few want to acknowledge it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs

Ideally we'd go to preference-based voting, but just eliminating "let's make votes from rural areas vastly more important" as a voting system would be a huge start.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by ethbro on Saturday April 08, 2017 @02:40AM (#14065671)
Last time some states tried to do that it didn't work out so well.
Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by bsder on Saturday April 08, 2017 @02:45AM (#14065692)
Those states didn't have the majority of the economic power when they tried it. The South needed to win; the North simply needed to outlast.
Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by ryanx435 on Saturday April 08, 2017 @04:23AM (#14065938)
Apps and search engines don't win wars
Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by bsder on Saturday April 08, 2017 @04:45AM (#14066013)
An army travels on it's stomach. http://www.westernfarmpress.com/tree-nuts/what-happens-if-us...

And, that oh-so-important-to-the-rest-of-the-country-farming, is less than 5% of California's GDP.

California's manufacturing sector is enormous. Good luck repairing your planes without California. And medicine? Oh, yeah, that biotech manufacturing goes bye bye. etc.

Our current highly interconnected economies rely on peace. If an actual significant war ever broke out, people would start starving immediately.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by Turing_Machine on Saturday April 08, 2017 @08:38AM (#14066618)
"An army travels on it's stomach."

True, but that stomach is full of wheat and corn, not celery and kiwi fruit.

"Good luck repairing your planes without California. "

Good luck being able to get a glass of water without the rest of the country. I wonder where trouble would develop first?

Plus, what makes you think that the agricultural counties are going to join your utopia in the first place? Almost all of them voted heavily for Trump.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by ryanx435 on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @03:47AM (#14095632)
Are you aware that flyover country, as you Californians call it, is mostly farms?

Noone is gonna starve without california. We might not be able to get avocados during the winter months anymore, but we'll be fine.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by gumby on Saturday April 08, 2017 @02:24AM (#14065619)
I worry about the refugees streaming from the rump USA into California, most of whom would not be prepared for the harsh Sierra conditions.
Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by ethbro on Saturday April 08, 2017 @02:39AM (#14065669)
It's okay, I played a lot of Oregon Trail.
Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by Turing_Machine on Saturday April 08, 2017 @08:33AM (#14066605)
"California can survive much more than the rest of the country can."

What are they planning to use for water?

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by btilly on Saturday April 08, 2017 @02:31AM (#14065640)
The USA without California is screwed. The USA with California screws California while insulting us.

Do you think that the problem is California or the rest of the USA?

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by pooper on Saturday April 08, 2017 @03:28AM (#14065793)
A destabilized neighbor is usually not desirable unless you benefit from the lack of stability (US Mexico?)

In any case, I don't think California wants to secede.

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by xkcd-sucks on Saturday April 08, 2017 @12:52AM (#14065371)
California's government is barely capable of keeping the state running even with federal assistance...
Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by fraserharris on Saturday April 08, 2017 @01:16AM (#14065442)
This is a myth. Due to various propositions restricting taxes, the California state government experiences significant booms and busts. When the busts do happen, the deficits are negligible relative to the size of California's $2.5T economy - the 7th largest in the world.

Sources: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/12/taxing-rich-... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-16/brown-s-c...

Re:It’s time for Scotland to find a new home in Canada by dragonwriter on Saturday April 08, 2017 @01:01AM (#14065397)
California's government has had no trouble keeping the state running, even with the active harm done by a the net federal extraction of wealth from the state, since the supermajority budget requirement which prevented effective governance was removed.