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Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by qyv on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @12:27PM (#14043281)
Dolphins, which are another highly intelligent species, don't seem to have any qualms about eating octopus.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by self_assembly on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @05:57PM (#14046011)
Dolphins also don't seem to have qualms about raping and other violent behavior. I don't think humans should base their ethics around what a dolphin would do.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by afterburner on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @12:51PM (#14043469)
Neither do many humans.

But there are many, many differences between humans and dolphins. We're smarter, for one. Debate philosophy. Are rarely seriously in danger of starving. Have much more culture. Etc., etc.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by LordKano on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @04:10PM (#14045164)
People starve to death every day. How are you defining "rarely"?
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by afterburner on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @05:51PM (#14045970)
Compared to animals.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by flukus on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @08:22PM (#14046913)
Are dolphins ever in danger of starving? Looks like they have a fairly abundant food supply that we're the biggest threat to.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by pvaldes on Thursday April 06, 2017 @03:39AM (#14048680)
Sometimes they died from this cause, yes. The problem is not the available food, is the non-food items present also in the same place. Stomach blockages are not uncommon.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by probablah on Thursday April 06, 2017 @03:22AM (#14048607)
Dolphins are clearly intelligent, but not smart enough to organize a colony of many thousands of permanent shelters, and share community surplus that advances a dolphin civilization that benefits those who participate.

So, probably as intelligent as nomadic pre-historic humans. I wouldn't rate that as "highly" intelligent. Just somewhat intelligent.

These are still pre-historic dolphins, since they don't seem to record history for themselves yet. If they carry oral traditions, they seem to be limited to hunting techniques, and not specific events and personalities measured across time. There is no evidence of symbolism invented by dolphins.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by krzat on Thursday April 06, 2017 @04:27AM (#14048865)
Maybe the only reason for dolphins not having civilisation is lack of hands.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by probablah on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:06AM (#14050114)
So what? They're under water. If anything that makes it easier to alter their environment with lasting effects. In calm waters, it would be trivial to dig trenches and stack rocks, to create structures, as hunting traps or dens.

Either way, the octopus is similarly prehistoric, despite readily prehensile appendages.

Nor does a lack of hands readily explain the level of elephant intelligence, given a prehensile trunk.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by psyc on Thursday April 06, 2017 @08:22AM (#14049873)
There are plenty of people who question whether agrarian civilization was a smart move.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by probablah on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:07AM (#14050129)
And there are also plenty of animals that question whether their own role in human agrarian society is a smart move.

Hint: the animals are less intelligent for doing so.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by leephillips on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:20AM (#14059354)
Douglas Adams has done some interesting research along these lines.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by db48x on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @12:44PM (#14043418)
Yes, but we don't eat dolphin because we regard them as too intelligent (unless they spend all their money on the lottery).
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by throwanem on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:14PM (#14044250)
Speak for yourself. I don't eat dolphin out of professional respect from one apex predator to another.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by test1235 on Thursday April 06, 2017 @06:08AM (#14049262)
I doubt most people these days would be considered apex predators. The only way I'd be an apex predator was if my prey was some sort of vegetable.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by throwanem on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:18AM (#14050694)
"Apex predator" is a species category, and our species is so efficient at hunting that most of us never have to be involved with any aspect of the process save the end product. If that doesn't qualify for "apex predator", what does?
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by eru on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:22PM (#14043773)
Whales are delicious, too. (I had Mink Whale in Iceland. Tastes like good beef.) I expect most dolphins to taste similar.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by oh_sigh on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:07PM (#14043644)
Are you sure about that? Are you sure it isn't just because they are relatively rare and their meat doesn't taste good?
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:11PM (#14043675)
Also tradition. E.g. pigs are about equal in intelligence to dolphins and chimpanzees.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by spullara on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @06:26PM (#14046233)
Things might change if we find out they are made of bacon.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by eru on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:22PM (#14043781)
Mink Whales are delicious. (Just out of ignorance, I would assume dolphins probably taste similar-ish?)
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by soundwave106 on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:18PM (#14044283)
I've only found a few posts that describe the taste of dolphin. This entry (https://www.wideislandview.com/2010/03/28/bon-appetit-what-i...) described it as tasting like liver with a beefy texture. That doesn't sound terribly appetizing to my personal taste.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by pc86 on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:16PM (#14043722)
I'm willing to bet if they tasted half as good as octopus they would already be extinct.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by bluGill on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:19PM (#14043756)
We do eat dolphin. Mahi mahi type of dolphin, I buy it at Costco: it is good.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by pacaro on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:24PM (#14043795)
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by astrodust on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:47PM (#14043984)
Spoiler: Costco doesn't sell dolphin.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by Fezzik on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:08PM (#14044214)
for clarity, though sometimes called a "dolphin", mahi mahi is a fish, not in the Mammalia class, like an actual Dolphin... so they are quite different.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by tropo on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @05:58PM (#14046014)
I've seen it labeled "dolphin". I asked the seller if it was really dolphin, and he said yes, so I bought it. It tasted suspiciously like fish. :-(
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by tdfx on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:32AM (#14050820)
It's a dolphinfish (actually quite an ugly fish and visually very distinct from a mammalian dolphin).
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by muninn_ on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @12:51PM (#14043468)
Dolphins most likely don't have any notions of ethics.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by erikpukinskis on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:13PM (#14043701)
I don't think that's it. It's just a matter of choices. We can eat things like fresh sourdough bread and kimchi which are also very tasty. Dolphins are fighting for survival every day. I suspect life will only get harsher for them as the oceans are dying. We have supermarkets. They have limited choices.

Killing and eating a pig when you need it to survive is not immoral. Killing a pig because you felt like having pork rinds, and then leaving the rest of the body to rot because you'd rather have steak is immoral.

While there are dolphins who won't eat octopuses because it's dangerous or difficult, I bet there are some who won't because they empathize with them. If the humans in this thread can empathize with an octopus why couldn't a dolphin?

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by TheSpiceIsLife on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:04PM (#14044152)
"Killing a pig because you felt like having pork rinds, and then leaving the rest of the body to rot because you'd rather have steak is immoral."

But when does that happen? Wouldn't the butcher or supermarket usually sell most of the meat and the rest of the carcass is used for dog food or whatever?

I suppose there is probably some waste, but I find it hard to believe there are animals left to rot as you describe simply due to economics.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by erikpukinskis on Thursday April 06, 2017 @01:48PM (#14052807)
Sure, I wasn't posing it as a common social problem, just an example of a kind of killing-for-food that would be widely understood as unethical.

Personally, I think consumption of more than a few ounces of meat per week is unethical, by the same logic. It's not necessary for health. However, most people in my country don't have the food culture necessary to make adequate non-meat-based dishes. We weren't all born in a family where we were taught thrifty cooking techniques. So it's a strange gray area of "unnecessary". One doesn't need to eat more than a couple ounces of meat, but one needs food and if one doesn't know how to cook plants into something that could stand in for meat in a satisfactory way, then they "need" meat.

The internet is there, so anyone could do it though. I think whether it's ethical comes down to how much free time you have and how comfortable you are with cooking. But again, that's my personal view. I wouldn't expect someone else to live by my ethics. I would expect them to have some measure of "need" in their scheme though. If their habit is "I eat as much red meat as I want I don't even think about it", unless they're and abuse victim or something that's probably not an ethically defensible position.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by TheSpiceIsLife on Thursday April 06, 2017 @03:08PM (#14053588)
Thank you for this thoughtful response.
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by gozur88 on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @05:48PM (#14045956)
There's very little waste in distribution. I read an article about chicken processing (I think it was on HN, in fact), and was amazed to see where all the pieces went - e.g. chicken feet from a processing in Arkansas were flash frozen and shipped to China. Parts that aren't edible by people get ground up and used for feed or fertilizer.

The waste is almost entirely on the consumer side.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by badestrand on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @03:37PM (#14044898)
Maybe not at the butcher but in peoples's fridges for sure. Isn't it that a quarter of food gets thrown away?
Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by BurningFrog on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:52PM (#14044039)
> Dolphins are fighting for survival every day

The dolphin life span varies between 20-50 years for the various species.

Re:Dolphins' elaborate octopus-hunting strategy by pvaldes on Saturday April 08, 2017 @11:31PM (#14070267)
It depends on what do you interpret as ethics in any case. We fall often on the trap of those rubber abstract concepts. Dolphin can not read an ethics treatise obviously, but show lots of examples of what most people would call "ethical behaviour":

Cooperative hunting, altruism, care for the members of the group, and colective child care are normal.

Innate interest and sense of compassion for other marine mammals in distress, including humans, and a strong protection response in dangerous situations.

They have grandparents. This is particularly remarkable. Old specimens past their reproductive days are treated as expendable and die quickly in 99% of the animal species. Grandma's are instead VID (very important dolphins) in its societies, and live much longer than expected.

Mourning was also reported in some cases.