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Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by TuringNYC on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:40AM (#13974810)
Here is my annoyance with AI Hype: people seeking extra tailwinds pitch their startups as "ML companies" even with the most tangential usage of ML. It drowns out real ML companies. Most people cannot tell the difference.

At a hackathon recently, someone pitched their app as an "ML-driven app" though the only ML in there was some 1-line language translation feature they were consuming off Watson REST services for a tangential feature on their app.

Meanwhile, my submission actually used a self-trained CNN on a custom dataset using TensorFlow and changes to start/end layers on the NN. The image classification features were the core of the app and it wasn't something that was just a wrapper over an Off-the-shelf API. We actually tried multiple networks and went thru the trouble of parameterizing everything.

At the end, I wonder how many judges actually understood the difference in effort/value to the two attempts at ML.

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:03AM (#13974907)
Difficulty level 1: The only ML in there was some 1-line language translation feature they were consuming off Watson REST services for a tangential feature on their app

Difficulty level 2: Self-trained CNN on a custom dataset using TensorFlow and changes to start/end layers on the NN

Difficulty level 3: Custom rolled 12 layer CNN trained with with novel hand labeled data.

How many people to you think know the difference between these and the fact that each step is a magnitude or more harder than the last? That's not even getting into trying to apply research grade stuff.

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by erkkie on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:27AM (#13975212)
Why should people be able to tell the difference vs the outcome of those products, unless someone (investors?) is specifically just buying into the AI hype itself? (in which case, this is nothing different from when everything was "social")
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by TuringNYC on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @07:45AM (#13975759)
I'm not saying people should be able to tell the difference, nor am I discounting the value of the final outcome. Just that pitching an app as ML-driven, when it is barely 1% ML-driven is deceptive and mis-informs the public.

Consider taking the side mirror from a Ferrari, putting it on a Ford Escort, and then pitching the Ford Escort as a race-car. The Ford Escort may be a great family car, but it is not a sports car. People who don't know the difference might come to think of it as a sports car, and might even question the wisdom of spending money on a Ferrari.

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by erkkie on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @10:04AM (#13976637)
I get (and perhaps even agree) to the sentiment, logically at least, but realistically all marketing is deceptive. It's pragmatically more useful to understand the how's and why's of that and play along.
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @09:20AM (#13976309)
If that 1% is essential to the purpose of the app, it seems reasonable no matter what % of the code of the app it represents.
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by TuringNYC on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:23AM (#13977358)
Going along with my racecar example...the side view mirrors are essential...so does that make the Ford Escort a racecar?
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:34AM (#13977470)
The analogy doesn't work, because "racecar" isn't a technology used in the side mirrors.
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @01:07PM (#13978387)
Differentiation.

Most off the shelf ML tools are not that powerful - and they don't make a difference in how you differentiate as a business. If you have a ML team and know how to build models from scratch with novel data, then you can iterate on your model and expand, something you can't do if you don't own the model.

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by kenjackson on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @02:07PM (#13979029)
You should show your differentiation by differentiating. But in many cases the ML differentiation isn't the same as differentiating the value prop of the product.
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by wolf84 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:20AM (#13974964)
I got tensorflow to analyze blutooth signals off a wireless controller.

talk about dreamland autoaim

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by wolf84 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:28AM (#13974996)
you know, something like thumbs as a correlation
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by barrkel on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @08:22AM (#13975939)
Effort doesn't have much relationship with value. Nor does the complexity of the core tech. People don't pay for implementation details; geek points don't mean prizes.

Effort where it maximizes return, leveraging existing assets where possible, to solve problems for real customers, is what's valuable.

Newly built tech is a rapidly depreciating asset; the depreciation comes not only from the progressing state of the art elsewhere, but also in maintenance costs and lack of network effects. Open sourcing to offset the depreciation is risky too.

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by ernestbro on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:47AM (#13975071)
I'd say you can build real "ML-driven apps"using only APIs - I disagree that you have to build it all from scratch
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by ramblerman on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @08:39AM (#13976029)
Your focus on "effort" and "real" sounds a bit exclusive at the behest of your own job security.

The ML boom (specifically DL) is so interesting because of the applications. Computers recognising images better than humans for instance.

Surely outside of academia its a means to an end like anything else. If Team A wires together some high level Keras components with 30 lines of code, and does something really cool with it, is it less valuable?

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by prvnsmpth on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @10:38AM (#13976891)
If said team uses Keras as just a black-box, I would argue that it is. Not having intimate knowledge of the complex algorithms that you employ to build your services is not exactly an ideal situation to be in. If things doesn't work as expected, you can't just look it up on Stack Overflow, for instance.
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by _pmf_ on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:23AM (#13974979)
> even with the most tangential usage of ML

What, basic linear regression is not cutting edge enough for you?

Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by make3 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @07:33AM (#13975708)
hackathons prizes are bullshit, didn't you know
Re:The AI Misinformation Epidemic by TuringNYC on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:38AM (#13977506)
I wasn't at the hackathon for the prize, but to find enthusiastic developers to recruit for employment, those that aren't usually found through traditional searches.