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Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by toast0 on Friday March 24, 2017 @11:55AM (#13949762)
Monopolies are ok, anti-competitive behavior from monopolists is not. I think the only thing I've seen that looks anti-competitive from Amazon is when they stopped selling (some?) TV devices without support for Amazon Prime Videos.
Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by eridius on Friday March 24, 2017 @02:51PM (#13951247)
They've done a bunch of anti-competitive shit with ebooks, but the DOJ has adopted the really fucked-up position of "if prices are low for consumers, then it's ok", even though Amazon is clearly abusing their dominant position in the ebook market repeatedly in order to squash competition in ways that have been clearly found to be illegal in the past.
Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by swalsh on Friday March 24, 2017 @02:43PM (#13951185)
Amazon has done some stuff that smells anti-competitive. For example... where did all the product listings go from this sellers profile? (https://www.amazon.com/gp/node/index.html?ie=UTF8&me=A2RFSIF...) They seem to have all disappeared the day after thanksgiving last year....

I heard through the grapevine that in the marketplace agreement, that you must list all products from all channels you have a presence in with the amazon channel to stay in compliance.

why would they do that? Oh probably because Ma Bell uses that data to target which products they want to compete in from their eCommerce company.

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by samsonradu on Friday March 24, 2017 @05:38PM (#13952440)
How about anti-dumping laws? How is that applied in the US?

Isn't "burning money until you kill competition" inherently illegal?

I assume Uber has the same issue.

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by zeteo on Friday March 24, 2017 @12:11PM (#13949892)
Maybe some people think monopolies are OK but the law says they aren't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act#Original.... Are you suggesting a legalization campaign for monopolies?
Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by k2enemy on Friday March 24, 2017 @01:56PM (#13950836)
I think you are mis-interpreting the Sherman Act. Monopolies are not illegal -- from further down in the article you linked to:

The act is not meant to punish businesses that come to dominate their market passively or on their own merit, only those that intentionally dominate the market through misconduct, which generally consists of conspiratorial conduct of the kind forbidden by Section 1 of the Sherman Act, or Section 3 of the Clayton Act.

The FTC also has more information: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by zeteo on Friday March 24, 2017 @02:16PM (#13950973)
There's nothing in the FTC link that says monopolies are not illegal. In fact they say this:

> The Sherman Act outlaws [...] any "monopolization, attempted monopolization, or conspiracy or combination to monopolize."

If you look at any felony e.g. selling hard drugs there are always mitigating circumstances and exceptions - but they don't invalidate the general rule. The text of section 2 is pretty clear that monopolies are generally illegal.

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by k2enemy on Friday March 24, 2017 @03:51PM (#13951728)
I'll try this again. Section II makes "monopolization" illegal, which is different than being a monopoly.

From the DOJ: Monopolization requires (1) monopoly power and (2) the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen, or historic accident.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-...

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by zeteo on Friday March 24, 2017 @06:06PM (#13952621)
I'll try again to restate the big picture and see where we disagree:

- monopolies are illegal since 1890

- excepting natural monopolies (utilities), which are strictly regulated instead

- since the 1980s, also excepting companies that keep prices low for the end consumer. This is the space where Walmart, Amazon and Uber have grown. But, if they try to raise prices substantially OR if enforcement guidelines become more strict again (b/c politics), these giant companies can get into giant legal trouble (see: break-up of AT&T).

Are we in disagreement an any of these points? If you think unregulated monopolies were OK before 1985, can you give any examples? Same for post-1985 unregulated monopolies that raised consumer prices?

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by k2enemy on Friday March 24, 2017 @08:06PM (#13953262)
I disagree with the very first point. Monopolies are not illegal in the United States. Monopolization is illegal, but the legal definition of monopolization is not "being a monopoly."

If it were illegal to be a monopoly, no firm could ever invent a new product category as they would be a monopoly in that market. There's a hundred years of case law supporting the fact the being a monopoly is not illegal. The US v. Grinnell is one of the big ones, and quoted in the DOJ page I linked to.

https://www.quora.com/When-and-why-were-monopolies-outlawed-...

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-oligopolies-legal-if-monopolie...

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

https://www.wired.com/2012/10/antitrust-is-supposed-to-prote...

http://www.girardgibbs.com/antitrust-monopoly/

As another example, Microsoft was found to be a monopoly and to be monopolizing. The result of the case was not that they had to stop being a monopoly, it was that they had to stop the unfair and monopolizing business practices.

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by zeteo on Friday March 24, 2017 @10:34PM (#13953780)
> Monopolies are not illegal in the United States. Monopolization is illegal

Next up: the 18th amendment did not implement Prohibition, since it still allowed alcohol consumption; it merely forbade obtaining it.

The links present a unilateral view of the issue, mainly from lawyers defending big companies. Here's the other side from our longest serving Justice, William O. Douglas [1]:

"We have here the problem of bigness. Its lesson should by now have been burned into our memory by Brandeis. The Curse of Bigness shows how size can become a menace - both industrial and social. It can be an industrial menace because it creates gross inequalities against existing or putative competitors. It can be a social menace - because of its control of prices. [...] That power can be utilized with lightning speed. It can be benign or it can be dangerous. The philosophy of the Sherman Act is that it should not exist. For all power tends to develop into a government in itself. Power that controls the economy should be in the hands of elected representatives of the people, not in the hands of an industrial oligarchy. Industrial power should be decentralized. It should be scattered into many hands so that the fortunes of the people will not be dependent on the whim or caprice, the political prejudices, the emotional stability of a few self-appointed men. The fact that they are not vicious men but respectable and social minded is irrelevant. That is the philosophy and the command of the Sherman Act. It is founded on a theory of hostility to the concentration in private hands of power so great that only a government of the people should have it."

[1] http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/334/495.html

Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by hueving on Friday March 24, 2017 @05:10PM (#13952242)
How many utility companies can you get to provide electricity to your house? In the vast majority of the US it's just 1.
Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by zeteo on Friday March 24, 2017 @05:43PM (#13952472)
You are correct that natural monopolies are allowed to exist under US law, but the trade-off is that they're strictly regulated. Each state has a utilities commission, usually appointed by the governor.
Re:Amazon, the world’s most remarkable firm, is just getting... by 794CD01 on Friday March 24, 2017 @12:38PM (#13950141)
I think it'd be a good idea, but let's not pretend that any of us need to push for that. The monopolies are perfectly capable of hiring their own lobbyists.