From someone that is able to enjoy proper work conditions in socialist Europe, the state of work condition expectations in US is always surprising.

Sometimes I get the feeling that even my own country (Portugal), with all its issues regarding work conditions, still appears to be in better shape.

Hi from socialist Netherlands, where the issues around IP and employers are EXACTLY the same as the US.

Are they enforceable?

I am no lawyer, but I don't expect that under EU work law anything done outside work can be forbidden in the work contract, in any member country.

The only issue I see from law point of view, is if whatever is being done, in terms of private projects, is related to knowledge acquired during the work activities, sometimes under NDA. Here yes, there can be issues.

Now if the projects are done in technology stacks or business domains completely different from what happens at work, then it isn't enforceable.

However I am no lawyer.

Which of the 52 states is that? Its probably closer to the CA i.e. it has to be related to the employers work not everying.

From someone who would give his left leg to work in Europe, but not 4/5 of his salary, enjoy your wins!

I couldn't care less about IP myself - but the real reason this stuff is pretty standard is that investors are somehow really bullish about IP (the "secret sauce"). Against our own beliefs, we decided for pretty strict contract terms around IP as this topic usually turns out to be one of the standard blockers in any funding and exit negotiations. In former companies, after a financing round people had to sign new terms and that can get pretty complicated.

That's the real reason things are pretty messed up all around protecting IP.

As we've survived without funding so far, we're thinking of relaxing this as well. Kudos to GitHub's investors for staying away from this nonsense.

Such offers must be refused. I know it's easier said than done when you have your back against the wall.

But turning down such people in favor of those who respect your IP is always the better investment down the line.

This is not about trade secrets its about outside work not related to your day job.

For real, this should be the norm. Good on GitHub anyway though!

The real question is how expensive they are. The US has les protections but thus pays a lot more. Soft engineers moving from SF to europe get their income cut by more than 50%. In the end, more europeans move to the Us that the other way around, showing ultimately what the body prefers.

Who cares about income? Profit matters. Societal benefits matter too. How many days of work in a month is required to break even on all the basics of life like rent, food and medical care + retirement insurance.

Everything matters, thats why looking at only 1 axis ends up biased. Seeing how people vote with their feet takes everything into account, preferences, income, services, etc.

The reality is that the US is a very generous place if you have money, so if you are a software engineer you can have a luxurous life in comparison to what one would get in EU. The situation is opposite for lower paying jobs.

Curious. How is it more luxurious? Say I have $2000 extra at the end of the month in EU and in US. Where the difference comes from?

You can get a better private education in the us with money that you can for free in europe. College is a great example of free college vs overpriced but ultimately valuable private colleges

You could have a much bigger houses as well. If you move to munich or berlin(even though the latter is one of the cheapest cities in europe) a house is really expensive in comparison to what you can get in a city like Austin, Denver, even Seattle if you commute a bit.

Your probably looking at paying > 2 times what we pay in the uk in NI just for heath cover.

Also in the UK taxation of employee shares is a lot saner plus GCT is a lot lower and you get a 16k Pa allowance for CGT

That's because "engineers" are seen as second class when compared to other professions.

> more europeans move to the Us that the other way around

Biased metric. The US makes it hard for people to leave.

How so?

@lostboys totally agree, but thankful someone is at least offering me more than serf rights

It really is sad. The worst part is, employees are treated poorly at many companies. I feel like it's even worse during and after a recession because employers know people are desperate.

I have been working on mplyees.com, a site where employees can share what needs to change publicly and anonymously. Hopefully we can bridge this divide since employee happiness is key to a successful business.