News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by PuffinBlue on Sunday March 19, 2017 @06:50PM (#13910201)
Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff.

Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years.

The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part.

The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to a constantly filling drum that wouldn't be emptied. Que the film style comedy of water vomiting forth from the soap dispenser tray all over the kitchen.

The warranty is only 2 years standard (thanks for that at least EU) but anything more is paid. No 10 year guarantee anymore!

And mine wasn't the only newer Miele I've seen with expensive early failures as other friends have been caught too.

General consensus of the repair technicians I spoke with was all to get the cheapest non-condensing dryer (white-knight was mentioned as reliable but super cheap to repair if needed) you can and an LG washing machine for the sealed direct drive motor which comes with a 10 year [EDIT - seems they've dropped it to 5 years only now] guarantee.

Bosch dishwasher I'll concede is still going strong after 7 years. And It's really been abused (no filter cleaning for first 5 years!) so I take you point on that.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by lobster_johnson on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:25PM (#13910440)
Are we ready to dismiss an entire brand because of one anecdote? All appliances fail at some point. We can't make a judgement based on a single data point.

Reading about this stuff also makes me sad that the rest of the world have such weak consumer protections. In Norway, sellers are obligated to provide 5 years of warranty by law, and the consumer has certain rights such as the right to get a replacement if the product cannot be fully repaired after a certain number of attempts at resolving a problem.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by 15thandwhatever on Sunday March 19, 2017 @08:39PM (#13910795)
The other thing that's discounted here is how people treat their products they've purchased.

I'm not saying that's the sole cause, but it surely doesn't help when filters aren't cleaned, things aren't replaced at their regular intervals, and other standard maintenance isn't done.

I'm comfortable with buying a used car given the maintenance paperwork and/or maintenance-related receipts are provided. But that's about it.

I'll probably never buy any used household appliance related to hygiene or food consumption -- washing machines, dishwashers, or even a microwave.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by PuffinBlue on Sunday March 19, 2017 @09:54PM (#13911127)
Point of order: The non-filter cleaned item is the longest lived.

Also, do you guys even dishwasher? You clean them by using a wash pack like this[1]. You don't need to physically remove the filter save for a blockage as you just wash it in place.

So yeah, I exaggerated, what a dastardly scallywag!

[1] https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=25945475...

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by PuffinBlue on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:32PM (#13910490)
I took my anecdata straight to the shops, jumped onto the planned obsolescence bandwagon and bought the cheapest replacement I could find.

Now I don't care if they fail in 2 or 3 years because they're the same cost as the repair of an expensive model. And like you say, all appliances fail at some point, so I'll keep fueling this horrible new world we've built for ourselves and let the manufacturers fight it out over price.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by k_sze on Sunday March 19, 2017 @08:30PM (#13910762)
Unless the world gets really good at recycling, this is also the guaranteed way to utterly trash the planet.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by PuffinBlue on Sunday March 19, 2017 @09:46PM (#13911090)
Where do you live in the world that doesn't recycle white goods?

It's literally the law in the UK that such goods have a method of being 'taken back' so they don't end up in landfill.

I can't actually put any such goods in landfill if I tried, save for fly tipping. Even then the item would end up through the recycling chain.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by liveoneggs on Sunday March 19, 2017 @10:08PM (#13911195)
recycling in the US has to be profitable. Where I live we are no longer allowed to put glass into the recycling because it is no longer a profit center for the city.

I should add that getting rid of big items can be especially difficult, but most appliance delivery includes taking away the old one to .. wherever they go.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by ars on Sunday March 19, 2017 @11:36PM (#13911476)
> to put glass into the recycling because it is no longer a profit center

And because recycling it is one of the most pointless things you can do. It's sand, we have unlimited quantities of it, the planet is made of it.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by mnw21cam on Monday March 20, 2017 @09:22AM (#13913919)
The right kind of sand for making glass isn't found everywhere. In the UK, we have a particular problem that the only glass-suitable sand we have is not suitable for making clear glass, so we can only make coloured glass. All our clear glass is imported, mostly from France. However, most local recycling centres only have a "mixed colours" glass bin, so we can't even make our own recycled clear glass. And That's Why We Can't Have Nice Things (tm).
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by philipkglass on Monday March 20, 2017 @12:00AM (#13911568)
The reason to recycle materials made of abundant elements (steel, aluminum, glass) is to conserve energy rather than ores. (Even the energy justification would be far less significant if world energy systems were mostly non-fossil.) Though city planners should do the arithmetic to double check that the collection system doesn't waste more resources than it saves.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by yuubi on Monday March 20, 2017 @11:58AM (#13915219)
Refining iron or aluminum from ore takes significant energy because you're basically un-rusting it, and that reaction naturally runs the other way; recycled metal gets to reuse that energy investment.

I thought the glass process was basically melting sand and adding some trace additives, rather than forcing any chemical reactions uphill. Recycled glass also needs melted (if it doesn't, that's called a reusable bottle, not recycling).

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by liveoneggs on Friday March 31, 2017 @09:34AM (#14003561)
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by yborg on Monday March 20, 2017 @12:11AM (#13911629)
This is incorrect. Making good glass is not trivial, glass has been recycled since Roman times. Even today, "Savings for other materials are lower but still substantial: about 70% for plastics, 60% for steel, 40% for paper and 30% for glass."
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by j3097736 on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:25PM (#13910439)
How new? 14 yo Miele washer never had an issue.

>no filter cleaning for first 5 years!

That's pretty disgusting for something you use to eat.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by kevin_thibedeau on Sunday March 19, 2017 @08:37PM (#13910789)
It's one of the dumber features of the Euro dishwashers. All you need is a good macerator and no worries with periodic maintenance chores.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by tallanvor on Monday March 20, 2017 @04:29AM (#13912575)
Well, I haven't had to clean my filter in over 5 years, but I still pre-rinse (yes, I know you're not supposed to need to anymore, but I don't want to risk it), so I check the filter regularly, but it's clean.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by PuffinBlue on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:34PM (#13910503)
Ha! That's not quite how my model works (you just use a wash pack to clean the whole machine) but yeah, when I did finally clean the filter because a plastic straw was stuck in it it was not so bad considering.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by prodmerc on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:00PM (#13910273)
Well, the rate of failure is the lowest compared to other manufacturers. And those repairs are way too expensive I should say.

White Knight dryers are surprisingly good, yeah. The LG washers work fine for 3-5 years, their weakest point is the suspension (really hard to replace) and the drum bearings/spider (irreplaceable), especially if you overload them.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by PuffinBlue on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:18PM (#13910397)
The drum was a point all the repair guys brought up for basically all washing machines because all the modern ones are welded or something. Essentially they said they are terrible for repairs compared to the old style (which I presume weren't welded?) but the benefit to the newer setup was less leaks (or words to that effect).
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by khedoros1 on Sunday March 19, 2017 @08:39PM (#13910799)
I've got an LG direct drive. The bearings failed after about 6 years. The repair ended up being about $250(US). They replaced the stator, rotor, drum, and bearings (essentially all the moving parts of the appliance).
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by ams6110 on Sunday March 19, 2017 @10:16PM (#13911223)
Staber washers are supposedly made with industry-standard components (seals, bearings, motors, etc.) so if they fail you can get replacements from any mechanical parts supplier.

Don't know how reliable they are.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by mistermann on Sunday March 19, 2017 @10:29PM (#13911275)
Someone should start a company building all appliances this way - they'd be taken over and shut down very quickly.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by antod on Monday March 20, 2017 @04:08AM (#13912500)
> Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer.

My parents installed Miele appliances in a kitchen remodel about 6 years back. The fancy expensive oven must've broken down 5 times in the first year. I think it eventually settled down though.

Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by jansan on Monday March 20, 2017 @05:39PM (#13917913)
Miele's reputation is based mainly on their washing machines. When we bought the appliances for our kitchen we did not even consider any Miele products, but for washing machines I would never buy anything else.
Re:They Used To Last 50 Years by k-mcgrady on Monday March 20, 2017 @06:14AM (#13912929)
>> The warranty is only 2 years standard (thanks for that at least EU)

Maybe it's different depending on EU country but it should be 2 year manufacturer warranty followed by 4 years covered by the retailer.