As someone who was diagnosed with Aspergers, and someone that greatly dislikes annoying, confusing, and overly excited people that rely almost entirely on certain forms of non-verbal social cues to communicate (to the point I think they're just as broken as I am, just in the exact opposite way; they seemingly lack the ability to use words and logic to convey ideas, preferring emotions and impulsivity to interact with the world and others)...
I actually understand the hermit to some extent. I do believe that he could easily suffer from something the DSM V considers on the spectrum. It is unfortunate that society's supports fell through for him.
I was always okay with him being him and did not try to force him to be more social. I helped him figure out how to interact with society on his terms.
For example, he likes going to stores with self-checkout so he doesn't have to deal with a cashier. Self-checkout exists and many people use them for many reasons. One of his big motivators is that dealing with people is hard, even for just the brief interaction of paying for his purchase.
this is a fine line though. If you have some level of social anxiety, avoiding social contact is about the worst you can do for it. It's allowing the fear to control you. A better solution is to work your way through the social anxeity, learning organic ways to "grease the gears" and make situations pleasant to both parties.
I had to learn this in my late teens/early 20s. I was withdrawing more and more, stone-faced all the time in public places such as the grocery store. I'd park behind the store just so I didn't have the hassle of interactions in the parking lot. That's letting anxiety reign over you. Cognitive distortions [1] can send you on a downward trajectory where avoidance is the norm and you to go greater and more extreme lengths to mitigate the "problem". I learned that a smile, saying "hi, how are you?" or "excuse me" seem to make most interactions at least 50 "percent" less uncomfortable compared to unemotional silence, which I've seen in psychology books as a sign of hostility.
Now, if you are autistic and have something inhibiting your ability to understand social cues, then "just facing it" wont work, but even people on the spectrum can learn to improve their situation through a skilled therapist.
"Hello!" <clerk something something pleasant> "It's nice outside"
Now I understand the clerk would also rather just jam my shit through the scanner and point at the payment total and grunt.
I think of it as the chatter when two modems connect. Some noise and then a little signal then we are done.
Additionally, letting him avoid it part of the time makes it easier for him to cope effectively the rest of the time. You can think of it as him having a limited people skills budget and not insisting he piss it away unnecessarily just because other people with a bigger budget don't find it to be a hardship to pay such things. For him, it amounts to being nickeled and dimed to death.
I'm having trouble picturing what this kind of reaction would look like. Can you explain what the cashiers did that make you think this way?
We have done a lot of reading and we believe he lacks prosody and lacks the ability to tone match. This is something other people are not consciously aware is socially important, but he routinely gets that reaction that is summed up by the phrase "I don't like your tone."
In contrast, I appear to habitually tone match without trying. This gets me read as incredibly deferential, which has a different social downside. So, one thing that does work is he and I frequently shop together, everyone knows I am his mother and people generally find me likeable. They eventually conclude "He's a nice, quiet young man." and quit having an issue with him being him.
This right here is the arrogance I am talking about. You think you know better than I do what my nearly 30 year old son needs. Now why on earth would you think that? That is incredibly contemptuous.
Hello, ADHD here.
That sounds like you're saying that being able to fit in is a bad thing when talking about a guy who lived in the wilderness alone stealing from people for 25 years as a better alternative.
Shaving a metaphorical square peg rarely gets you a round one that works beautifully. Usually, it just gets you a misshapen, mutilated thing that is neither square nor round.
The way you've written this makes is sound like you're saying that current medicine and techniques to help autistic people are bad(give him meds and force him to somehow fit in) and that his solution of running off into the forest to avoid all human contact and surviving off theft is a better solution. If that isn't what you mean then you've worded your point badly.
>For as long as humans have existed, there have been those that don't connect well socially. We may label them and pontificate and categorize, but this has always been true and is not likely to change
Ok but for as long as humans have existed they've needed societies to help them survive. The article even makes that point with regards to historical hermits needing to sell stuff to buy food. There is a reason exile was one of the harshest punishments available in a lot of historic cultures.
>Perhaps we should get over our arrogant idea of normal.
But participating in society IS normal. No arrogance needed. That doesn't mean that people who have difficulty with it are bad but it does mean they aren't normal.
IMO Mz was a bit terse and you jumped to conclusions. It's true that it would not be uncommon for someone to write what she wrote and mean it how you took it, but it's not the simplest interpretation.
However, you didn't write anything offensive and have your own point which is valid. Nothing to down vote IMO.
For the vast majority or people we tether between fear of social exclusion and over-confidence. In theory, social interaction it easy; its just people conversing about shared interests. If you are willing to take the chance at making friendship your life can be so much richer and they will most likely live longer. It's easy to find excuses not to interact but we all have to try. People like Christopher Knight are outliers and probably beyond help but it doesn't mean there shouldn't apply the slightest societal pressure to people to form relationships because not doing so means a deconstruction of society.
I think that principle generalizes pretty well. There are better ways to deal with people like this than forcing them to do something and insisting it is for their own good.
Friendship that is not based upon real respect is not genuine friendship.
But, hey, doctors and other experts don't get paid the big bucks to say "He's just shy." You can't prescribe expensive meds if you respect people's differences.
If he were growing up today, they would likely give him some diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum or some related diagnosis and try to give him meds and force him to somehow fit in.
For as long as humans have existed, there have been those that don't connect well socially. We may label them and pontificate and categorize, but this has always been true and is not likely to change. Perhaps we should get over our arrogant idea of normal.