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Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by slg on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:55PM (#13842515)
>Bitcoin just went from a high of 1327.1926 to 995.9575 in the blink of an eye.

That is a loss of 25% of its value. This announcement does nothing to hurt the utility of Bitcoin or its application as a medium of exchange. That drop certainly seems like a speculative investment bubble popping.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by freework on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:46PM (#13843667)
> This announcement does nothing to hurt the utility of Bitcoin or its application as a medium of exchange

That's what the 1MB blocksize limit is for.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by mrb on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:35PM (#13843617)
"That is a loss of 25% of its value"

Update as of 11 March 01:44 UTC (4h43m after the SEC decision): BTC fully recovered!

It now stands at $1140, which is the level it was trading at just 2 days ago. From 09 March 00:00 UTC to the SEC decision on 10 March 21:01 UTC it gained +12% due purely to speculation ($1140 to $1280) and basically retraced these 12%: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg10zig30-minzcz... I am impressed. I thought downward trading pressure would have lasted for days/weeks after the SEC rejection.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by koolba on Friday March 10, 2017 @10:17PM (#13844008)
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by mrb on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:13AM (#13845868)
Do not think so. 20 hours after the SEC decision and BTC continues to climb... $1200 now.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by mrb on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:28PM (#13862025)
And 3 days after the SEC decision BTC still continues to climb... $1240 now.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by conanbatt on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:43AM (#13844418)
Within 2 hours? thats a bit too much
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Analemma_ on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:08PM (#13842598)
Yup. Any "currency" that can plummet in value by 25% because of a minor SEC ruling is not ready to be a store of value.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by olegkikin on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:34PM (#13842768)
It's not minor. If the ETF were approved, billions of dollars would flow into bitcoin through the retirement funds, which now can't. So that +25% was baked in, that was the expectation of the appoval. Lots of people were hoping for it. Oh well.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by bogomipz on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:10PM (#13842956)
I am not sure why you put the word currency in quotes. There have also been many state issued currencies that have done similar - see Thai Baht, Argentine Peso, Russian Ruble, Venezuelan Bolivar etc.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by nradov on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:27PM (#13843828)
Volatility isn't the issue. Bitcoin isn't technically a currency because it can't currently be used directly to pay public debts or taxes in any nation state. Bitcoin is just another commodity like copper or crude oil.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by programmarchy on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:45AM (#13844553)
You're describing fiat currency, a subset of currency. Historically, a nation state is not a prerequisite for currencies to exist.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by dragonwriter on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:57AM (#13844579)
Actually, GP is discussing legal tender, which is not the same thing as fiat currency. Commodity (both specie or representational) currencies have historically been legal tender, in addition to fiat money (which is the modern norm for legal tender.)
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by bogomipz on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:03AM (#13845616)
Agreed, I actually checked investoepdia and a government issue seems to be part of the agreed upon "modern" definition it seems.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by npongratz on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:52AM (#13845784)
Not a public debt or tax, and it's noted that this doesn't "legitimize" Bitcoin in the minds of the authorities, but looks like Norwegian prosecutors recently demanded the penalty for one criminal act to be partially paid in Bitcoin:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/pay-up-in-bitcoins-norway-pro...

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Natanael_L on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:14AM (#13845876)
Has happened in USA too in at least one civil case, with a contract denominated in Bitcoin
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by bogomipz on Friday March 10, 2017 @10:31PM (#13844057)
I understand the quoting now, thanks. I agree with you that its not technically a currency since it's not issued and circulated by a government but I disagree with the OP that it is not ready to be a "store of value" because of a single volatility event.

There are many who would argue it is a good store of value since it can't be manipulated by the issuing state's monetary policy or susceptible to the poor fiscal management of the issuing state.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by blunte on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:53AM (#13845786)
There have been many volatility events. Given that governments have the ability to practically outlaw it if they choose, that makes it quite risky as a store of value.

Several of the major volatility events in the past of bitcoin were related to Chinese government announcements or rumors regarding regulation/legality.

Sure one can transfer bitcoin without governmental approval (or against restriction), but that annoying need to convert to and from fiat in order to trade for other goods and services means that the governments still have a great deal of influence over bitcoin.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by bogomipz on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:53PM (#13846605)
>"There have been many volatility events."

Sure but I was speaking to the OPs assertion that this particular event is proof that it is not suitable as a store of value.

>"Several of the major volatility events in the past of bitcoin were related to Chinese government announcements or rumors regarding regulation/legality."

Right but this is to be expected given that China recently has been the largest market for Bitcoin by volume no? [1]

>" but that annoying need to convert to and from fiat in order to trade for other goods and services means that the governments still have a great deal of influence over bitcoin"

Is that any more annoying or any more inconvenient than having your hard-earned savings devalued by your government?

[1]http://www.coindesk.com/estimating-data-china-real-bitcoin-t...

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by blunte on Saturday March 11, 2017 @04:32PM (#13847374)
> Is that any more annoying or any more inconvenient than having your hard-earned savings devalued by your government?

I wouldn't recommend holding fiat currency as savings, except for perhaps 2-3 months of salary equivalent in case of emergencies. The rest should be stored in other assets based on your risk profile.

But it is currently a fact of life that we must exchange our cryptocurrency for fiat if we want to buy goods and services most places. While the number of merchants accepting bitcoin is growing, it's still quite small compared to the number of merchants who take local currency.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by moomin on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:20AM (#13845910)
Just to expand on the point: there's two models of currency: fiat and commodity. Commodity money is obviously linked to an existing commodity, and suffers from massive swings since there's no way to insulate it from "news". BitCoin, of course, isn't backed by a commodity, so the natural thing is to assume it's a commodity in an of itself. The "mining" terminology supports this view, obviously. As a commodity, it most closely resembles Gold, in that its value doesn't seem closely correlated to the value one can extract from it through industrial use.

Fiat money has its plusses, though. Directly related to the fact that governments _can_ manipulate them is the possibility of reputational currencies. Here, a state has managed its fluctuations and taken actions when prompted for sufficiently often that "news" affects them much less than commodities, since the markets assume the state will act well before it becomes an issue (this also damps good news, since to a certain effect the good news was "expected").

A good study in this phenomenon, and how to break it, is what's happened to Britain since the referendum. It has lost a lot of value, obviously, but also its volatility has gone sky-high.

Going back to OP's point, a well-managed fiat currency can be a better store of value than any commodity. Entertainingly, Sterling has lost a similar amount of value to BitCoin, but it took much longer and is regarded as a disaster. Although, like BitCoin, you'll be able to find fans swearing the exact opposite.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by kolinko on Saturday March 11, 2017 @07:41AM (#13845263)
You have to tell that to the European Court of Justice:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/european-court-justice-ruling-bitco...

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by srssays on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:49PM (#13843155)
Pound sterling...
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by dmoy on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:54PM (#13843453)
Woah wait when did the pound lose 25% of its value due to a SEC ruling?
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by srssays on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:08PM (#13843515)
There were two separate events, adding up to 25%. The first happened instantly as the Brexit result became known. The second happened on Oct 7 at the opening of trading when there was nobody around who wanted to buy...

I find that Bitcoins are an effective hedge against conventional wisdom.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by guiambros on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:24PM (#13843814)
I wouldn't call Brexit a "minor ruling".
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by arthurcolle on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:11PM (#13843525)
Read about Soros breaking the Bank of England sometime, it's great stuff. Black Wednesday I think is the name of the event in popular culture
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Blahah on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:37AM (#13845730)
Great stuff in the sense that one person can directly profit to the tune of a billion dollars, by manipulating currency markets, at the cost of the taxpayers of an entire nation. So, not great stuff at all.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by shitgoose on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:35PM (#13848784)
He did not manipulate pound. UK government manipulated it by locking the exchange rate that did not reflect the fundamentals. Pound was doomed, Soros just profited from the crash. So, yes, great stuff - government should pay for its stupidity. Unfortunately they pay with our money...
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Blahah on Monday March 13, 2017 @09:34AM (#13857650)
He shorted the pound enough to move the market significantly, and his buyback strategy deliberately prevented any stabilisation. The crash wouldn't have happened or at least wouldn't have been as bad without his involvement.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by shitgoose on Monday March 13, 2017 @06:34PM (#13863155)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oET45GzMI

a good overview of the origins of the crisis. how politicians for their own shortsighted gains made one poor decision after another and led the country into financial crisis.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by alexeldeib on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:11PM (#13843524)
Could be a reference to Brexit? The pound suffered pretty severely after the referendum.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by conanbatt on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:44AM (#13844424)
To be fair, sec ruling is a much smaller measure than country-wide referendum on economicy policy
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Taek on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:13PM (#13842626)
Well, it can't compete with the USD. But plenty of nations like Venezuela have citizens that would happily take a >25% haircut to escape their governments capital controls. When Greece went bankrupt, life was much easier for anyone with Bitcoin than for anyone without it.

As many issues as Bitcoin has today, it has clear use cases.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by sanswork on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:22PM (#13842680)
>When Greece went bankrupt, life was much easier for anyone with Bitcoin than for anyone without it.

How? Bitcoin atms were basically non-existent there and from what I read on /r/bitcoin at the time from Greeks no one there was accepting it in stores.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by drcross on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:25PM (#13843033)
There were capital controls restricting more than 100 euro worth of withdrawals from banks per day. Sure it's not helping you if you are buying a coffee but if it's saving parts of your pension that you worked your whole life to earn then it becomes very important.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by sanswork on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:33PM (#13843083)
This is a non-answer.

>There were capital controls restricting more than 100 euro worth of withdrawals from banks per day.

Yes and bitcoin didn't help this since the ways to get cash for your bitcoin involved international transfers which exposed you to those restrictions.

>Sure it's not helping you if you are buying a coffee but if it's saving parts of your pension that you worked your whole life to earn then it becomes very important.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the question above. Could you expand on it some more?

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by ajmurmann on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:58PM (#13843197)
Not the parent, but what's going on right now in Venezuela speaks to this nicely: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2017/02/turning_sociali.htm...
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by LyndsySimon on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:09PM (#13843258)
I sent someone in Venezuela about USD 40 in Bitcoin in October or November. They were able to convert half of it into more local currency (Bolivares?) than they made in a month at their full-time job.

He said physical US currency was at a huge premium in the country because there wasn't nearly enough of it to go around, and the official exchange rate was clown shoes.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by sanswork on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:02PM (#13843216)
First up the government there have already started arresting the mining operators so probably no longer looking like that wise of an investment on their parts.

Other than that it's a much safer bet in Venezuela to buy USD than bitcoin though and that is generally what happens.

If you're poor in a country with a government like the Venezuelan one betting your limited funds on a speculative investment that requires an active internet connection to use doesn't seem wise or helpful.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by LyndsySimon on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:07PM (#13843241)
> Other than that it's a much safer bet in Venezuela to buy USD than bitcoin though and that is generally what happens.

How?

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by sanswork on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:10PM (#13843261)
Black market currency exchanges if you need to convert otherwise you just take payment in USD only and basically treat it as your currency instead of the Bolivar.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by oelmekki on Saturday March 11, 2017 @04:38AM (#13844924)
995 is the lowest price it was sold for, not the bottom of averaged price. If you look at graphs now, you'll see that price is considered not having been under ~ 1050.

Those kind of statistical anomalies happen all the time, you must be aware of them if you look at real time chart. The bottom line is that you can't really know what the price is before a 30min period ends.

That being say, I expect the price to go down further after a bounce (disclaimer : I'm not a financial adviser, this is an opinion). Bitcoin was already at its all time high, and then there was the rumor of ETF, promising it will go even higher and will reach the moon. That's a big red flag to me. What seems the most plausible to me is that it will now enter a downtrend until it finds its support, then only start a new uptrend. I may be wrong, but at least I won't loose money.

I totally agree we can't use btc as a currency, though. I have a prepaid visa card that I can load with btc, but I only use it very rarely because it's annoying to have to look at chart to know when is the good time to load my card for this week's grocery. Things are settled, now, bitcoin is a speculative asset. It would be more interesting if cryptocurrencies like tether, which provide USDTether and EURTether, crypto currencies always indexed against their fiat counterpart, were finally available at scale.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by mrb on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:22PM (#13843017)
You must be unfamiliar with financial markets. Many assets have lost 25% in minutes and still considered perfectly acceptable store of value: stocks, commodities, etc.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by LoSboccacc on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:32PM (#13843076)
Don't forget the euro a couple years ago reached parity with dollars in a couple months and people like ma that were saving to emigrate got thousands dollars in flames.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by throwaway12486 on Friday March 10, 2017 @11:05PM (#13844154)
The Indian Rupee ha lost ~40% of its value after 2011.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Spooky23 on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:13PM (#13843280)
Few viable currencies do so.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by danielweber on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:26PM (#13842716)
Eehhh, I've been skeptical of Bitcoin in the past because of its volatility, but this is very unusual. It's been rather stable on a week-to-week basis for a long time.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Analemma_ on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:31PM (#13842749)
The SEC declining to approve some investment vehicle is not unusual at all. Compare that to the USD, where nothing short of global nuclear war is going to cause a 10-minute 25% swing.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by cestith on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:13PM (#13842963)
On 2001-09-11 gasoline tripled, food doubled, and bottled water as much as quadrupled or quintupled in dollar pricing in parts of the US in less than a day.

Yes, there were in fact $4/gallon, $5/gallon, and even $8/gallon gasoline and diesel prices posted, many by noon. This also increased the price of everything shipped by truck for a while, too.

Prices came off that peak quickly, but took months to years to revert completely.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by cowsandmilk on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:27PM (#13843349)
That wasn't a swing in the value of the dollar, that was a swing in the value of those goods.

The price of a christmas tree drops precipitously the ~9PM on christmas eve every year, that says nothing about the value of a dollar.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by dandrino on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:01PM (#13843485)
Well, to be fair, the value of the dollar is determined by its buying power. If goods widely increased in cost, then the effective value of the dollar has decreased.

Not saying that's what did or didn't happen on 9/11, though.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Hannan on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:27AM (#13844375)
Yes, if all goods widely increased in cost (or at least, most). If it's only the goods that people buy in anticipation of (e.g.) a catastrophe, or goods that rely on those aforementioned goods to be manufactured and/or delivered, then the above comment is correct.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by slg on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:27PM (#13843048)
Gas prices actually dropped in the months after 9/11 [1]. Any place that was charging $8 per gallon day of was guilty of price gouging. Either way, you are comparing an SEC decision to the aftermath of the largest terrorist attack in history. Don't you think the scale of these two events is a little different?

[1] - https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=E...

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by cestith on Thursday March 16, 2017 @05:06PM (#13889178)
Parent post said "nothing short of a global nuclear war". Don't you think that's yet another difference in scale?
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by hueving on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:11PM (#13843764)
There is a difference between localized price gouging and the value globally of a dollar.

If I charge $1000 to eat a cracker from my cupboard, the value of a dollar didn't suddenly decrease by 99.99%.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by eli on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:19PM (#13843002)
I don't think storing value in diesel fuel is a good idea either.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by shitgoose on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:42PM (#13848807)
you'll be surprised to find out where your pension fund stores your money.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by danielweber on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:43PM (#13842810)
"This is unusual" is "the 25% drop." Over the past year, it's been pretty boring.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by blunte on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:49AM (#13845776)
Not to mention the relative consolidation of players in China. Some reports have suggested that well over 51% of mining hash power is consolidated amongst three organizations in China. My last look didn't agree with that number, but still it appears that it may be much easier to control consensus than was intended.

Thus, "anything can happen" if a few key players agree behind closed doors and change the rules.

I think bitcoin is a quite useful transfer platform, but I think it would be foolish to store much of one's assets in BTC.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by Natanael_L on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:12AM (#13845861)
Note that pools != miners. A pool might set the policy for their blocks, but miners can swap pools whenever they feel like it. Large pools have had individual miners abandon them in masses before.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by blunte on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:36PM (#13846522)
True. Actually I was referring to the manufacturers of ASICs who are running huge mining operations. I'm not sure if they operate in their own pools or if they distribute their efforts across multiple pools. But they do have a critical mass of hash power.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by thescriptkiddie on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:30PM (#13843059)
Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to use currency as a store of value. The unwavering stability of the almighty US Dollar is a massive historical outlier. For most of history the wealthy didn't keep Scrooge McDuckian piles of cash around, they converted their cash into hard goods and investments like loans, which won't evaporate if hyperinflation occurs. Even today, the smart thing to do is to store most of your value in liquid and semi-liquid assets.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by jon_richards on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:53PM (#13843174)
>investments like loans, which won't evaporate if hyperinflation occurs.

Loans absolutely will evaporate if hyperinflation occurs. Lets say you give a $1000 loan that pays out $2000 after two years and the value of the dollar drops 50% over the first year. You will still get $2000 in 1 year. Assuming the value of the dollar holds, you won't have made an actual profit. But what if the value of the dollar continues to drop? If you think its going to drop another 50%, you'd be better off selling your loan for $1000 now, in which case you've already lost half your value, assuming you can find a buyer.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by megous on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:31PM (#13843851)
Except it's not stable at all. If you hold USD long term, because of the inflation target of the FED, you'll be able to buy less and less. USD lost a massive amount of value in the previous century alone, despite the massive advances in every field of human activity.

https://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by hossbeast on Friday March 10, 2017 @10:11PM (#13843991)
Warning: Division by zero in /home2/sam/public_html/m/calculators/uscompare/relativevalue.php on line 156
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by fennecfoxen on Saturday March 11, 2017 @09:52AM (#13845577)
You actually want https://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/ for the index – as https://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php which is the calculator results page. (And it was coded by an Ohio State University college student when it was on EH.Net, before being maintained by me as a college student, before being transferred over to Sam Williamson's personal-business site about ten years ago where it is now – a transfer which I always thought was weird but that's academia for you apparently... regardless, it explains the code quality.)
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by gnaritas on Saturday March 11, 2017 @03:06AM (#13844733)
Yes it is stable, inflation is a small steady largely predictable thing, that's what stability is, predictability. By contrast, Bitcoin is highly unstable, no one has any idea what it's value will be in a week, let alone 30 years down the road, but due to the dollars stability you'll have no problem finding 30 years loans denominated in USD. The USD is the very definition of a stable currency. Stable doesn't mean never losing value, it means being predictable enough to plan for the future.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by kennethh on Saturday March 11, 2017 @06:56AM (#13845178)
Therese Weiss currency siden something simulator a few years ago. Increased 25 % against the dollar. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/15/swiss-franc-sours-stocks-tank...
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by jasonlingx on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:21PM (#13843323)
Those who stored some value when it was below $1 are not doing too bad...
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by sanswork on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:27PM (#13843350)
Unless they were storing that value on MtGox or one of the many other early exchanges that were robbed. Or if they themselves got hacked as happened in many cases.

I suspect you could probably put all the people in the world that got rich from buying at $1 and holding in a school classroom together for a chat and not be very crowded.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by kordless on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:10PM (#13846146)
This is an irrational argument.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by baddox on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:02PM (#13842556)
It clearly reduces some of the potential future value of Bitcoin, and predictions of future value are baked into the current market price. I guess you could consider that under your definition of "speculative investment bubble," but it really applies to any market price of anything.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by slg on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:30PM (#13843057)
The only way it reduces its future potential value is by making it harder to speculate on its future potential value. Nothing about the currency actually changed.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by baddox on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:42PM (#13843404)
If an official decision from the agency that regulates financial assets for the most powerful economy in the world doesn't count, then when does "something about a currency actually change"?
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by kolinko on Friday March 10, 2017 @11:23PM (#13844211)
Anything that prevents Bitcoin from:

- being a good anonymous currency

- being a truly global currency for irreversible online transactions

- being a currency that's easily programmable

That's the three main use cases for Bitcoin. There are contenders for #1 (Monero, Dash), and for #3 (Ethereum). For #2 it's still the easiest because of the huge network effect behind it.

Traditional currencies can't compete with crypto for neither of the space. They are attached to systems that prevent transactions from being anonymous, global, irreversible or programmable.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by rocho on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:52AM (#13845783)
There's nothing that prevents Bitcoin from being a good anonymous currency. It simply isn't.

Its design allows it to be pseudo-anonymous at best, while Monero, for instance, has anonymity built in. Therefore if one seeks a truly anonymous currency they cannot possibly find it in Bitcoin.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by askmike on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:39PM (#13843111)
While technically nothing changed, the SEC approving an ETF directly tied to bitcoin would have changed how Bitcoin is perceived by a lot of people.

> Nothing about the currency actually changed.

You can say this about about everything: "while nothing about the pound changed, brexit caused the price to go down."

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by slg on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:54PM (#13843180)
Brexit had real world impact on how the currency would be used in the future and the strength of the economy of the country that stands behind it. The SEC decision does none of that.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by baddox on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:38PM (#13843393)
The SEC decision very clearly has real world impact on how Bitcoin will be used in the future.
Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by askmike on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:19PM (#13843310)
> The SEC decision does none of that.

That's because Bitcoin isn't directly tied to any economy. But just as Brexit had a real world impact on the pound, the SEC decision had a real world impact on bitcoin: It is directly tied to how people perceive Bitcoin, which is an import aspect just as well.

Re:SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund ... by jamespedwards on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:08AM (#13845847)
It is more a reflection of the instant liquidity available on exchanges. A more accurate description would be that the price went from about $1250 pre rejection announcement and has settled at around $1190-$1200.