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Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by aphextron on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @04:49PM (#13758337)
>Let people pay $1/month to raise their limit to 280 characters per message.

The format is the entire point of twitter. It forces the condensation of thought. Increasing the limit would fundamentally change the service.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by gregmac on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @04:57PM (#13758449)
People already hack around this by posting images of text, or using several tweets (usually annotated with "1/" "2/" etc, or merely by replying to their own tweets).

The images hurt accessibility, and the streams make it harder to share the discussion (which is partly the purpose of being a social app to begin with).

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by euyyn on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:51PM (#13759480)
But doing it has friction, both for the writer and for the readers. If you remove the friction, you get more of it.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by potatolicious on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:59PM (#13759539)
This feels like maybe a [citation required] thing. Facebook doesn't have any particular length limit on posts, and anecdotally vast screeds are quite rare on my feed, and most posts are pretty terse regardless.

Is there data to suggest that people will just rant all the time if they're permitted to?

[edit] Anecdotally, my current top 20 posts in my FB feed: 17 under 140 chars, 3 greater than 140 chars.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by euyyn on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @11:43AM (#13765286)
Nobody's arguing people will rant all the time. A lower frequency of longer texts is expected, even if Facebook didn't show it.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by gnicholas on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:28PM (#13760433)
Does this include adding 23 chars for a link, and possibly also for images (which I think used to count as extra but no longer do)?
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by wila on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @06:06AM (#13762858)
We don't need twitter to be another facebook.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by vickychijwani on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @03:27PM (#13767969)
Not sure why you've been down-voted. Twitter is so different from Facebook in terms of what it's primary use is, that it doesn't make sense to compare them, and while I wouldn't quite word my response this way, I agree with the sentiment that Facebook usage data doesn't tell us enough to predict Twitter usage under higher character limits.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by westiseast on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @07:22AM (#13763124)
Yeah, plus what happens now is you get these almost garbled, code-like sentences with emojis, inB4 type abbreviations, truncated URLS, hashtags, @ references and its unreadable/unscannable. I would totally prefer a 140 character block where the hashtags, @references and links fell outside and I coukd parse the tweet more naturally.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by VLM on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @08:44AM (#13763555)
Yet, the people who like it, like it, and changing it would mostly make them leave, and the people who don't like it already left for something else and aren't coming back.

Its like daydreaming if the next version of Microsoft Word were reskinned EMACS with a new splash screen. Superficially that sounds pretty cool. But six months later everyone who wanted EMACS continued to use real EMACS and everyone who didn't want EMACS switched away from the MS Word clone of EMACS, leaving MS Word with zero users.

That's twitter's problem, the people who are really into "twitter 2016" are just going to leave if things are changed, yet the number of people into "twitter 2016" is seen as too small.

Perhaps their best bet is to abandon acting like a startup. Absolutely no one wants my local electric company to pivot into water and sewer services or open an office on Mars. There's nothing immoral or lower class about operating a respected public utility.

What twitter should be terrified about isn't finding the next billion users, but avoiding the 1970s CB Radio bust or the decline of BBSes in the 90s. The odds are much higher that twitter is going to be out of business and forgotten in 20 years than they're going to be ten times bigger in size/revenue/profit. Essentially twitter is a fad or a utility or in between and has to be monetized as a fad or a utility.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by theincredulousk on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:09PM (#13759157)
Maybe holding this arbitrary line in the sand as if it were a commandment is why Twitter apparently needs to be "turned around". 280 characters isn't now extensive prose - it isn't fundamentally changing anything. It has been 10+ years and they are still losing a tremendous amount of money, I think it is time to lose the idealism if there is a win-win for users and revenue.

At some point "condensed" thought just means reduced quality of communication. If some users want to say more, let them pay a dollar. I doubt users would be rattled to their core because some people can put two tweets in one.

Bottom line, users don't care about what Twitter's agenda is regarding character limit. Nobody decided to use Twitter because they were excited about a 140 character limit, they use it in spite of the limit. Twitter should be focusing on what the "in spite of" reasons are, because those are the reasons that define the intrinsic value of their service, not the character limit.

I believe most people use Twitter because it gives them the attention of an audience. If you can acquire the same size (or redundant, since most are on multiple platforms) audience elsewhere, then what reason is left for a user to tolerate any annoyance or quirk of the service?

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by tajen on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:25AM (#13761984)
Twitter is also a public discussion platform. It's a cog for democracy.

But after the 140 limit, Twitter's other annoyance is how public your comments are. You can't remove them and you're extremely liable for them. Making them private (actually, that option exists) would make it look like Facebook, so it isn't the solution, and making them anonymous won't solve trolls.

Liability on twitter currently doesn't prevent stupid people from harassing others, while a lot of clever people avoid using it because they understand the consequences of a mistake. That's pretty much the opposite of what we want. Twitter should think about reducing liability while moderating trolls better. A bit like on HN, where we have much less liability, but many more CEOs.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by masukomi on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @08:11AM (#13763390)
you very much CAN remove them. Tweets are deletable. You're no more or less liable for them than anything else you say in any other public environment. We have no less liability for our public statements here on HN. They're just harder to spread to the masses.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by emodendroket on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:36PM (#13760465)
Well if it makes people just stop using Twitter then it hurts the one thing they have going for them, a big userbase.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by toyg on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:50AM (#13761796)
As long as the previous mode remains free, I don't see people moving away.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by emodendroket on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @10:16AM (#13764294)
If what you liked was that everything was short but now it isn't maybe you'd just get on Facebook or whatever.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by dandare on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:01PM (#13759084)
The very first Twitter clone I remember came up with the killer feature - infinitely long Tweets. How many times did I hear this dumb idea? It is not a sandwich, longer does not mean better! The scarce resource is not the number of electrons you send, the scarce resource is the attention of the reader.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by Godel_unicode on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:54PM (#13759497)
Why is exactly 140 still the right length? Why not 145, or 73, or 280? Answer cannot contain words "always", "traditional", or "nostalgia".

There's a large distance between 140 and infinitely long.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by rdiddly on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @10:17PM (#13760722)
There is no technical reason. The reasons are all non-technical and irrational. Starting with the word-imagery: Have you ever heard a songbird go "tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet?" No, it ceases to be a tweet at that point. It's a squawk or scream or warble or something else. And probably it's annoying AF too. You probably think that's unimportant or has nothing to do with it.

Twitter is about the tweet. It's how they got big in the first place. It's the word they added to the dictionary. If you're thinking of pivoting away from what you are, you'd better consider it carefully and be sure it's not the main irreplaceable source of your claim to fame.

PS 10 years is hardly long enough for "always," "traditional" or "nostalgia" to apply.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by Godel_unicode on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:47AM (#13761784)
The core problem is that the length of a tweet should be "one concisely-stated thought", but that's hard to write into an API's documentation :)

> PS 10 years is hardly long enough for "always," "traditional" or "nostalgia" to apply.

Not in the real world no, although people are nostalgic for the pre-crash US, but on the Internet I think it definitely is. Put another way, if you changed Twitter into Medium people would be talking about "the old Twitter" with nostalgia.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by rdiddly on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @10:14AM (#13764270)
Well, that's why I said "hardly" and not "not." :)
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by aphextron on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:48AM (#13761511)
>Why is exactly 140 still the right length? Why not 145, or 73, or 280?

Why are youtube videos mostly 5 to 7 minutes? Why are pop songs 3 minutes long? Why are sitcoms 30 minutes long?

Forms of expression are defined by their constraints. I think of twitter's relationship to prose as analogous to a haiku.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by snowwrestler on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:19AM (#13761952)
YouTube videos can be as long as you want.

Songs can be as long as you want.

TV shows can be as long as you want.

You think you're arguing the value of constraints, but you're actually arguing that different media formats have different points of cultural optimization.

If that's true, then is there any need to enforce an artificial length limit on tweets? If shorter, pithier tweets are better, then most tweets will be short and pithy--naturally.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by Godel_unicode on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:33AM (#13761725)
> twitter's relationship to prose

I think we read very different Twitters :)

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by nandemo on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @08:28AM (#13763474)
Oh, do you read a lot of poetry tweets?
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by verdax_1 on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @07:08AM (#13763076)
Maybe the code base contains a bunch of edge cases where they assume 140 and trying to do anything else causes crashes or other poorly defined misbehavior. (Not what you were talking about but also a legitimate but unfortunate answer)
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by fantasticrahul on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:22PM (#13765846)
being a devloper myself this is the dumbest comment I ever read.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by blisterpeanuts on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @07:46PM (#13759868)
Because it was originally SMS messages which were limited to 160 characters. 140 for the text and 20 for user name.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by prawn on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:10PM (#13760327)
"Why is exactly 140 still the right length?"

That's common knowledge. They were asking, why is it STILL the right length?

If Twitter want to encourage short form content, there are other ways to do it. Either hide 141 onwards behind a [+more] link or style the long ones differently so they have less impact.

Better yet, create multi-panel tweets so content is still presented bite-sized, but in a way that people can delve as deeply as they like.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by mnmlme on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:37AM (#13762039)
I could see a version of Twitter that is similar in a way to the latest Instagram release (allowing for up to 10 images per post). So on Twitter you could have up to 10 tweets in a single post. Each still 140 char. Only the first one shows up in everyone's feed (just like it does today) and you swipe/scroll/page to the side to see additional pages. If the first 140 is intriguing enough people will scroll sideways to read more.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by prawn on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:57AM (#13773173)
I've posted about that concept before. I think it's a no-brainer and it baffles me that they're yet to do it, and that it took Instagram so long to have their equivalent.

Tweet storms are only getting more common in my experience. Further, entire newspaper articles could be presented as a series of bite-sized pieces. Just limit the first one to 140 IMO.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by blisterpeanuts on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @09:43AM (#13763967)
It's also common knowledge that arbitrarily changing a standard costs money. They have to educate hundreds of millions of users, re-jigger their databases and services, and forego a well known trademark feature of their product. Why bother? Everyone's memorized that it's 140 characters, and people have adapted pretty well to 140-character microblogging. Would 1,000 have been better? Possibly, possibly not. I think Twitter's fundamental problems run deeper than the SMS limitation; apart from some celebrity accounts with tens of millions of followers such as @RealDonaldTrump etc., they are starting to lose relevance compared to Facebook and other, more dynamic services.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by DashRattlesnake on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:35PM (#13760464)
> The scarce resource is not the number of electrons you send, the scarce resource is the attention of the reader.

Then they should make it a word limit and give you stop words for free (a, the, and, etc).

I think it requires more attention to decode the messages of people trying to work around the character limits (with bad spelling and dropped punctuation, etc).

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by dspillett on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @04:22AM (#13762446)
> Then they should make it a word limit and give you stop words for free (a, the, and, etc).

People would work around that by dropping punctuation so the algorithm would not see word boundaries. Or by writing in German...

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by masukomi on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @08:14AM (#13763399)
yes, speakers of agglutinating languages would be able to shove in a few more words, but a) they'd be looked at strangely by their compatriots for using some strange new combo word and no-one wants to have to decipher megawords like that b) (this should be obvious) switching to a different language means that the people who follow you can't read anything you say. So no, people will not switch to German, or any other agglutinating language to beat a word limit.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by DashRattlesnake on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:05PM (#13765618)
You already have something similar with the current system. Languages like Chinese have more semantic load per character, so I'd imagine Chinese tweeters can tweet more complete thoughts.

A better (but more opaque) system might try to estimate the "quantity" of semantic content in a language-specific way.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by andromeduck on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @04:57PM (#13758441)
Then charge per character and ramp it up as it gets longer.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by jpalomaki on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:16PM (#13759205)
This makes sense, although I would keep it simple and just offer for example normal and extended messages (max 280 char) with extended costing for example $0.10-$0.50/each.

Condensing your thoughts to 140 characters takes effort. This would allow trading the effort to money. The per message fee would limit the usage of this feature, encouraging people to still keep things short and only use the extended feature when they really need it.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by gonzo on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @05:28PM (#13758800)
first 140 chars are free. 141st and subsequent costs $1 ea
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by cortesoft on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:11PM (#13759169)
Well, the original reason for the 140 character limit was because you could get tweets via SMS, which at the time had a character limit.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by theoh on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @06:56PM (#13759518)
Via a single SMS message.

The size of SMS messages is still fixed at 160 characters, but now they can be transparently chained to send longer texts. This is quite unlike IP protocols which have much larger maximum packet sizes.

Whether Twitter should ever have taken a cue from SMS is moot: apparently the Twitter creators were inspired by the way police and emergency services use radio, so terseness was an aesthetic choice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concatenated_SMS

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by kalleboo on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @04:41AM (#13762533)
140 bytes to be more precise. An SMS client will cycle through 7-bit, 8-bit and UCS-2 encodings depending on the content, limiting the number of actual characters depending on the language.

The last time I tested it aaages ago, Twitter didn't enforce the encoding-based limitations, and if you sent a 140 character tweet full of unicode, it would actually send you several concatenated SMS.

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by derefr on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @07:10PM (#13759623)
> apparently the Twitter creators were inspired by the way police and emergency services use radio, so terseness was an aesthetic choice.

It'd be interesting to see a Twitter clone where people could only communicate in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code (i.e. a code + its predefined strongly-typed parameters.)

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by lazyjones on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @04:15AM (#13762409)
> because you could get tweets via SMS

could? You still can:

https://support.twitter.com/articles/20170004

Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by xellisx on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:16AM (#13761656)
I would hate to have twitter SMS me.
Re:Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around? by pc86 on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @09:55AM (#13764084)
I haven't seen any evidence of thought on Twitter for a long time, condensed or otherwise.