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Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:59PM (#13719212)
I had an interview there where the manager asked me to leave my laptop behind and go for a walk. I was hesitant after hearing stories of Uber conducting electronic espionage against its competitors. They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device (I had heard of that on HN too) so I was very nervous to leave my laptop behind and noted its exact orientation and position on the table. Sure enough when I returned my laptop had changed both position and orientation, but only enough to tell if you had specifically memorized it. I could be paranoid. They could have simply moved things on the desk. But anyway, people who are paranoid like me are advised not to take their laptops into Uber interviews. They are capable of just about anything, or so thinks my now paranoid self.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by ebf6 on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:50AM (#13721378)
> I could be paranoid. They could have simply moved things on the desk. But anyway, people who are paranoid like me are advised not to take their laptops into Uber interviews. They are capable of just about anything, or so thinks my now paranoid self.

I would be cautious about discrediting intuition as paranoia.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by imranq on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:38PM (#13720051)
1. Why bring your own laptop to an interview?

2. Isn't this scenario incredibly suspicious?

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by aisofteng on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:23PM (#13720652)
I have been asked to bring my laptop to a interview so that I could could in a development environment I am already comfortable with. I not only found it reasonable but also appreciated it.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by imranq on Monday February 27, 2017 @09:37PM (#13750657)
Ah that makes sense. They can still use a cloud based coding pad like most companies do
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by danielcampos93 on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:40PM (#13719590)
im just gonna say the fact that they told you to go for a walk and leave your laptop is pretty creepy.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by marmshallow on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:40AM (#13721322)
Sounds more normal than asking you to take your laptop on a walk.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by rm_-rf_slash on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:20AM (#13723361)
As a security-minded person, I would be suspicious under any circumstance where someone unfamiliar distanced me from my devices.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by ghughes on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:07PM (#13719839)
This smells like FUD.

> They could have simply moved things on the desk.

Is there any evidence suggesting something else happened?

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by AlexCoventry on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:35PM (#13720020)
Did you check the logs to see whether it had been opened in the meantime?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:34PM (#13720699)
No, how do you do that?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by dmix on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:57PM (#13720843)
Well, logs are quite easily accessible on any OS.

Memory forensics would have 100% given you evidence that it was accessed and exactly what was done. There are plenty of guides on how to forensically dump memory but that depends on the OS.

But I'm also in this is FUD camp. I highly doubt any company would do such a risky thing such as mirror your machine data merely for an interview. This would be highly illegal and damage the companies reputation for a relatively minor benefit.

Especially when interviewing any software dev which any infosec person would assume they are dealing with a sophisticated target with a high chance of being detected. Meaning they would have to use very careful cloning techniques.

It would be much easier to get you on staff on a company machine and temporarily monitor you closely after the fact. There are plenty of ways to thoroughly vet someone beforehand without taking such a risk.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:21AM (#13721239)
I think you might be right, but I had reason to worry given Uber's history with competitors, esp. industrial espionage. They were actively competing with the company I worked for at the time. The laptop was my own, but I have no reason to assume that they knew that. I did have some material of my own that I considered to be valuable to their business so I was concerned primarily about that (I had done things that have pushed the envelop quite a bit in a very specialized area that they were just getting into) All of those factors made me paranoid. If Uber was a good corporate citizen with no history of actively and illegally spying on competitors, I would not have been so freaked out after that episode. Call me paranoid... what's new.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by fuzzythinker on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:15PM (#13719377)
Thanks for the info. Will know not leave my laptop behind in any interviews.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by cmyr on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:10PM (#13720246)
A better strategy is just to not interview at uber.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by tomjakubowski on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:23PM (#13720321)
I've never felt the need to bring my own laptop to a job interview. If the company asked me to bring my own, I'd consider that strange or even suspicious.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by whorleater on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:21PM (#13720640)
It'd be really weird for them to request you to bring a laptop, but sometimes when a company flies you out for an onsite and your return flight is that night, your options are either 1) leave your laptop with the hotel as luggage (pretty bad) or 2) bring your laptop to the interview. There's no real reason for them to know you have your laptop with you however.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:38PM (#13720729)
they did not offer to provide me with a laptop and the interview format was such that I could google things and share some of my personal projects etc
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by hocuspocus on Friday February 24, 2017 @06:43AM (#13722762)
That is weird. What kind of tech company doesn't have an old laptop or a Chromebook for such interview format? What if you don't have a personal laptop? I'm certainly not bringing my work laptop to a job interview...
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by mst on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:56PM (#13727198)
The kind that's also too cheap to buy jackets for all their SREs, apparently.

This sort of penny-wise-but-pound-foolish shit is depressing, but not nearly as rare as I wish it was.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by kartickv on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:10PM (#13719867)
You didn't ask why?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:36PM (#13720713)
as a candidate you're trying to please and build trust, so naturally I wouldn't raise questions that would indicate my lack of trust
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by gdubs on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:55PM (#13720830)
Piece of unsolicited advice for the future: don't let anyone pressure you into doing anything you don't feel comfortable with. Ever.

If a place is worth working for they're not going to judge you for feeling more comfortable keeping your stuff with you.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by _audakel on Thursday February 23, 2017 @11:30PM (#13721019)
What about the TSA people asking for your cell phone at the airport? The whole border crossing incidents
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by rasz_pl on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:11AM (#13722194)
Recruiter A to recruiter B: Well, I hoped this one would be sharp enough, guess we need to search harder for people that wont be careless with our company sensitive stuff laying around simply because someone told them to leave laptop behind and take a walk ...
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:39AM (#13725167)
it wasn't a company laptop
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by rajathagasthya on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:31PM (#13719511)
> They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device

Isn't this only possible if the laptop is unlocked?

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by andreyf on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:57PM (#13719749)
It's not possible unless you have zero-days against the USB drivers or firmware on your laptop, in which case being logged in or not doesn't really matter.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:10PM (#13719866)
Proof I'm paranoid. My greater point, however, is that they have done some really shady stuff, and stealing competitor's IP is part of their culture, so their behavior itself promotes and justifies paranoia on my part and on the part of anyone looking to work for or do business with Uber.

Reputation is everything.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by maverick_iceman on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:10AM (#13721188)
It's pretty stupid to get paranoid over this. As GP pointed out if you logged out then it's very unlikely that they will get access.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by w00tw00tw00t on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:43AM (#13725231)
I think it's pretty stupid to consider any consumer device to be secure enough. I did hear on HN some time before that interview that some USB device can be used to bypass the lock screen, which was the basis for my worrying. Now, some are saying in this thread that it is possible (or at least was at the time) while others saying that it is not (and was not) -- Even an educated sample of tech folks cannot make up their mind, so there is (or at least was) room for justified concern... no?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by andreyf on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:40PM (#13728176)
I think the consensus is that it's possible, but expensive. So like, nation-state espionage yes, corporate espionage no. But anyone who actually knows anything won't be talking about it on HN ;)
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by linkregister on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:45AM (#13722558)
I must've missed that story, when did Uber steal competitor IP?

(Except this one, of course. To be fair it was Otto before the acquisition)

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by wodenokoto on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:59AM (#13722597)
If the machine doesn't have full harddrive encryption, you can just boot from USB/CD/Firewire and have access to everything.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by angry_octet on Saturday February 25, 2017 @08:24AM (#13731475)
FDE has been the default for ages.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by rasz_pl on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:07AM (#13722181)
I can install hardware backdoor in a macbook in under 3 minutes (with prep obviously).

Even you could do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGPGOoJn54E hint: there are internal USB buses in the macbook, you can hijack one for something like rubberducky +management circuity to trigger only when laptop is powered on for a longer period of time but not touched (no imu/keyboard/touch events/dimmed screen).

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by EnFinlay on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:13PM (#13727947)
So, anyone up for getting an Uber interview and using their laptop as a honeypot?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by sbierwagen on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:00PM (#13720190)
Why didn't you just shut it off first? You had FDE turned on, right?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by danielweber on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:34PM (#13720392)
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by brazzledazzle on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:10AM (#13721947)
That's pretty cool but won't do much against macOS.