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Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by lotu on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:26PM (#13718929)
The thing is in the US we lack a mandatory national or even state id. We use a driver's license which is effectively mandatory in rural parts of the country because otherwise you can't get anywhere. However if you are poor and live in a city the odds that you don't have a driver's license go way up. It turns out that their is no ID the government forces you to have. Clever politicians realize that they don't need to prevent everyone who disagrees with them from voting just preventing 2-3% is likely enough in many races.

The idea of voter ID is effective because of what you just said it sounds so reasonable, until you look at the motivation that it disproportionately results in poor people not being able to vote.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by Rapzid on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:11AM (#13721197)
> The idea of voter ID is effective because of what you just said it sounds so reasonable..

This goes for more than just voter ID. Politicians will say things that "sound reasonable" or "are common sense" on the surface, but the motives and fact once you get into the details tell a much different story.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by oh_sigh on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:27PM (#13719977)
Would you support voter ID if it came bundled with a low friction, easy to obtain voter ID card?
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by vinay427 on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:01PM (#13720191)
Not the parent commenter, but I personally would support this if the ID card was mandatory and free to any resident citizen. If it was issued by states, the federal government would need to require all states to comply.

The REAL ID act was supposed to be a step toward this, but has been continually delayed as far as I know.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by tasty_freeze on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:38PM (#13720724)
What problem do we have that a voter ID would solve?
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by yehi on Friday February 24, 2017 @01:21AM (#13721502)
Is that a rhetorical question? The reason given for requiring voter IDs (while possibly not the primary one) is to prevent voter fraud. Are you asking if there has every been a case of voter fraud? If so, here is one example [1].

[1] https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/oagnews/release.php?id=...

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by jackvalentine on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:09AM (#13721685)
I think the above poster is implying that voter fraud is so infrequent as to not be a problem.

I also note that mandatory ID laws wouldn't have stopped the case you linked - they had IDs but the fraudulent bit was the citizenship!

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by yehi on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:26AM (#13722248)
I'm not from the US but don't IDs require proof of citizenship? I mean, if an illegal immigrant were to try to get a driver license wouldn't they have to prove that they were legally in the US? Or can anyone from any country take a driving test and get a legal American drivers license?

If the later, then I can understand why people are against requiring such an arbitrary form of identification.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by cafard on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:08PM (#13725468)
One can be a legal resident of the US, have a driver's license, and be unable to vote. I know a number of foreign nationals with licenses.

A bored immigration guy in Detroit once amused himself by pointing out that neither my driver's license nor my draft card showed that I was in fact a citizen of the US, or I guess a legal resident. When I said that this was the only ID I was carrying, and shrugged, he waved me through.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by dagw on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:05AM (#13722430)
if an illegal immigrant were to try to get a driver license wouldn't they have to prove that they were legally in the US?

Varies from State to State as far as know. At least in some states it's enough to prove that you live in the state, not that you are living there legally.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by maxerickson on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:05AM (#13722837)
There's been activity to standardize checks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

I definitely had to show the 4 types of documents the last couple of times I've moved (photo/birth/status/address). Stupidly, the first id that was obtained by showing that stuff didn't serve as proof of the first 3 when I moved again.

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by unprepare on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:54AM (#13724146)
Youve linked an example of a woman who registered some non-citizens to vote which did not sway the election in her favor. I agree that non-citizens should not vote, but i do not agree with increased regulation from the government in order to fight against voter fraud which did not influence an election.

Can you link to a single instance of voter fraud effecting the outcome of an election?

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by areyousure on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:19PM (#13726742)
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by unprepare on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:05PM (#13727323)
I'll admit that I am surprised youve managed to find an election influenced by fraud, unfortunately the proposed solution of voter id laws dont seem to address this situation.

How would voter id laws prevent an american citizen from voting in a different district?

For example the texas election ID doesnt even include your address.[1]

[1]http://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/electionID.htm

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by areyousure on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:36PM (#13727647)
I was answering a direct request for "a single instance of voter fraud [a]ffecting the outcome of an election". I have no comment on voter ID laws.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by unprepare on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:42PM (#13727699)
areyousure?

im kidding, but seriously thats a really interesting article/event - what search terms did you use, or did you have prior knowledge of that incident?

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by areyousure on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:29PM (#13728094)
I do find it amusing to post under my username, but perhaps it is a bit caustic.

I found the incident a few months ago when I simply tried to collect a bunch of data on voter fraud in order to estimate how prevalent it is. Because the issue is so highly politicized, you have to dredge through an excessive amount of bullshit just to find references to specific elections. That election is mentioned in this article (which I, incidentally, recommend reading in full) about Hans von Spakovsky in the New Yorker, albeit in a VERY different guise than two relatives of the candidate: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud...

A much more interesting election is that of Loretta Sanchez to the House of Representatives in 1996. That resulted in a Congressional investigation that lasted for over a year, whose findings are worth reading if you're interested in analysis of voter fraud. For a quick link to an article from the time, see for example http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/13/cq/sanchez.html

Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by oh_sigh on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:48PM (#13725822)
Can you link to a single instance of a voter affecting the outcome of an election?
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by unprepare on Friday February 24, 2017 @01:22PM (#13726166)
Yeah, i noticed this a couple hours ago, but after the edit time had expired.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by kalleboo on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:50AM (#13721833)
Faith in the electoral system
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by sanderjd on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:45AM (#13724645)
I would have more faith in the electoral system if more people voted. This would result in fewer people voting.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by oh_sigh on Saturday February 25, 2017 @06:35AM (#13731134)
Why? If people don't want to vote, then they shouldn't vote. A person not voting because they know they are uninformed or don't care is great.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by sanderjd on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:31PM (#13789041)
I disagree with you. That's fine though, I don't mind if you have that opinion, as long as it doesn't lead to disenfranchising people.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by js2 on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:17AM (#13724359)
Only if it is proven to prevent fraud and not to disenfranchise voters. Here's the thing: voting day fraud doesn't happen in any significantly meaningful amount. Voter ID's true motivation is to disenfranchise voters, and it's justified by claiming it prevents a threat which simply doesn't exist.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by burkaman on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:53AM (#13723614)
Probably, but it would need to be extremely low friction. If poor people need to take a half day and go wait in line somewhere to get their new ID, that's not good enough.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by r_smart on Friday February 24, 2017 @01:21PM (#13726163)
Do states not have a 'State ID'? I know we have them in the state I'm in. It's even easier to get than a driver's license and is used for all the same things except you obviously can't drive with it. They're also cheap.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by olejorgenb on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:47AM (#13723108)
Uh, you guys have passports? (or am I overlooking something really simple?)
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by fortenforge on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:36AM (#13723480)
Nope. Only people who need to leave the country have passports. This generally doesn't apply to the working poor.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by burkaman on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:51AM (#13723602)
~35% of Americans have passports. No reason to get one until you need to travel abroad.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by LordKano on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:46AM (#13723560)
Passports exist here but not everyone has one. Off the top of my head, I'd say that most people don't have one.
Re:Math Professor Fighting Gerrymandering with Geometry by cafard on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:04PM (#13725437)
I was in my 40s before I had one.