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Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by out_of_protocol on Thursday February 23, 2017 @01:51PM (#13716580)
Another all time high (or so):

Over 100k transactions in mempool (waiting to be confirmed)

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/all.html

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by colordrops on Thursday February 23, 2017 @03:32PM (#13717478)
I wonder how many people are aware of the ongoing and raging battle between big blockers who want a hard fork to upgrade block size, and small blockers, who want a soft fork that adds functionality to make side chains feasible. I am strongly biased for one of these, but won't say which to avoid being attacked.

Awaiting the propaganda wave in response to my comment...

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by mchristen on Thursday February 23, 2017 @03:44PM (#13717600)
Doubtful, the crew at r/bitcoin do a great job of stifling any opposing discussion and sadly r/bitcoin is way more popular then r/btc.

One could be a regular visitor to r/bitcoin and have no clue that there is a huge political battle going on amongst the users, miners and developers.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Obi_Juan_Kenobi on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:48PM (#13719125)
If there's nothing else you can agree on in the Blocksize debate, the censorship in that subreddit is reprehensible.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by smokeyj on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:47PM (#13719661)
It's strange that reddit would enable that kind of activity. Are moderation logs not public?

Makes me wonder what other communities are oblivious to moderators influence.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by colordrops on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:02PM (#13719797)
You must not be a heavy user of reddit. Nearly the entire site is compromised, both by mods and admins. And even without that, subreddits are created and defined by users, and thus free to set whatever explicit and implicit rules they wish.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by wapz on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:45PM (#13720456)
Yup. Particularly /r/ama is a prime example of being compromised by admins.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by bhaak on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:56AM (#13721867)
Care to elaborate?
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by wapz on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:38AM (#13722062)
A lot is from rumors but since around the time they moved all the staff to SF, users 'reported' many of the "high-profile" AMAs to be paid. There was also a lot of speculation of vote manipulation by mods/admins. I didn't dig too deep so the above was mostly speculation (not from me).
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by skipants on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:37AM (#13725143)
You mean /r/iama? /r/ama is the casual, non-celebrity one.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by wapz on Sunday February 26, 2017 @08:00PM (#13741067)
Whoops yup! You are right!
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by adrianpike on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:14PM (#13718818)
> One could be a regular visitor to r/bitcoin and have no clue that there is a huge political battle going on amongst the users, miners and developers.

True story, I'm one of those visitors. Off to go read up on some stuff, apparently.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:11PM (#13720589)
/r/bitcoin was being brigaded by a person (Roger Ver) with a personal vendetta against the moderator of /r/bitcoin, and pays people to do it. The moderation policies are there for anyone to see, and if you feel like you don't have an outlet for your theories there, there are plenty of other outlets for you elsewhere.

What seems to be mostly adolescents continually scream 'censorship' without knowing the meaning of the word. Without that moderation, you get the cesspool funded by Roger Ver.

https://xkcd.com/1357/

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by bmelton on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:37AM (#13723037)
> What seems to be mostly adolescents continually scream 'censorship' without knowing the meaning of the word.

The meaning of the word, according to Wikipedia:

Censorship is the suppression of free speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

If members of a subreddit are engaging in the suppression of ideas they consider objectionable, that is censorship. Smart people understand that there is no actionable defense against such censorship, but lacking an actionable defense doesn't diminish its status as censorship to something lesser. Similarly, it's still censorship whether done by the government, reddit, or Bob's Corner Bakery.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Fantastic_T on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:10AM (#13721187)
I was one of the first people to join /r/bitcoin, and was banned years later, after the block size debate started, for being on the large block side.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by haakon on Thursday February 23, 2017 @03:54PM (#13717687)
Here's your "propaganda".

The segwit softfork may fix some things that make side chains more feasible, but that undersells it severely. It mainly solves a bug in bitcoin that prevents a good implementation of Lightning Network (which is not a side chain), and it also upgrades on-chain transaction capacity by doubling it, while solving another bug in Bitcoin (quadratic scaling of sigops) which make such a capacity increase safer.

More information here: https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by zik on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:16PM (#13718850)
Not that there's anything terrible about Segwit, it's just that we already have better solutions for everything it claims to do.

For instance we have a solution for the transaction malleability issue - Flexible Transactions - which causes a tiny fraction as much technical debt while offering big benefits in future-proofing. Why bother with Segwit when we have a better solution?

But that's neither here nor there because Segwit doesn't even solve the actual problem that everyone wants fixed right now - block size. The small, one off, slow to deploy solution offered by Segwit isn't a scaling solution at all. It's likely that take-up of Segwit wallets will be fairly gradual which means it'll probably never even prevent the blocks being full. Even if it does we'll be back in the same hole in a few months time anyway because of the small one off change. What's needed is a solution which actually fixes the problem.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:27PM (#13720665)
> What's needed is a solution which actually fixes the problem.

That solution is the lightning network, which the transaction malleability fix of the segwit patch fixes and makes possible.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by codys on Thursday February 23, 2017 @04:04PM (#13717775)
The concept of segwit is fine. The problem is that the implementation of it as a soft fork is questionable, and trying to position it as a capacity increase is even more questionable.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:14PM (#13720264)
Only people who really don't understand how bitcoin works are pushing for a hard-fork over a soft-fork.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by mchristen on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:37PM (#13720720)
https://medium.com/@octskyward/on-consensus-and-forks-c6a050...

Mike Hearn would disagree with you, and he knows a lot about how Bitcoin works.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:45PM (#13720767)
The same Mike Hearn that referred to bitcoin as the failed experiment?

https://medium.com/@coolbearcjs/the-mike-hearn-experiment-ha...

The same Mike Hearn that recently announced the failure of his R3CEV venture to deliver a blockchain solution for banking?

https://twitter.com/Beautyon_/status/834152812405735425

The same Mike Hearn that tried and failed to push through a fork of the bitcoin network called Bitcoin XT that allowed for a personally controlled black-list?

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-xt-fork-can-blacklist...

Yeah. That guy. He has an agenda, and it hasn't been aligned with bitcoin for quite some time.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Fantastic_T on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:08AM (#13721183)
Hearn is right. The wider world simply doesn't know how dysfunctional Bitcoin is, mostly because of the censorship taking place on the main communication channels. You will literally be banned from /r/bitcoin if you post a comment notifying other users that comments are being deleted.

The blacklist article is pure FUD, seemingly written with the sole intent of smearing Hearn.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by 6nf on Thursday February 23, 2017 @05:22PM (#13718390)
Segwit only doubles the transaction capacity, and then you are stuck again.

Letting miners decide when to increase block size is a long term solution. Segwit is not.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by zik on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:06PM (#13718765)
Also Segwit will only give us the block size increase when people transfer their existing bitcoin funds to new Segwit wallets. This is expected to be a slow process so any block size gains probably will be too gradual to be helpful.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by schmichael on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:03PM (#13718735)
Why would miners want larger block sizes? Don't small block sizes increase their fee revenue?
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by TD-Linux on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:32PM (#13718979)
Larger block sizes allow more transactions, so although per-tx fees will be lower, there will be more transactions.

The computational costs of larger block sizes are borne on the entire network, however the effects are most severe for miners as larger blocks tend to increase the profitability of large geographically-close pools in comparison to small pools [1]. This is why segwit is only an increase to ~2.1MB.

[1] http://bitfury.com/content/5-white-papers-research/block-siz...

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by schmichael on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:36PM (#13719007)
But the relationship between block size and per-tx fee is based upon the amount of competition between txs, not absolute tx volume. So if the block size is raised high enough to accommodate the current rate of txs with no competition, the fees don't just fall proportionally: they fall to near-0.

The higher the tx backpressure, the higher the fees. The larger the block size, the lower the pressure regardless of overall tx volume.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by kalleboo on Thursday February 23, 2017 @08:35PM (#13720019)
Miners could also simply decide to not include any transactions with a fee smaller than X. Transactions can't "shop around" for a miner, the first miner to mine a block wins.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by TD-Linux on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:05PM (#13719274)
Yup, it's not an exact tradeoff, and near-0 it breaks down entirely. At zero it's worse than that, because of the diminishing block subsidy schedule, having zero fee pressure will reduce the incentive for mining, and therefore security.

However, miners can't simply apply the limit to themselves without a consensus rule. There is code in Bitcoin Core to apply a soft limit, but as long as there is any fee pressure, ignoring transactions leads to a disadvantage compared to other miners, so in practice all miners tend to always use the maximum permitted block size. Most proposed schemes for increased or variable block size still enforce the same size across all miners for this reason.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:15PM (#13720270)
> however the effects are most severe for miners

Incorrect. The most severe effects are on the nodes.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by zik on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:25PM (#13718922)
The utility of bitcoin is damaged by the limited maximum transaction rate. It's no help to miners if bitcoin is replaced by another cryptocurrency, which is looking more plausible now than it ever has. In the end they could be collecting fees off a lot more transactions if the block size was larger anyway.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by schmichael on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:31PM (#13718972)
Is it possible a majority of miners sell their block rewards immediately and have little investment in the long term success of Bitcoin? I know they have hardware investments to recoup, so I'm sure there are many sensitive variables in their financial equations.

If their hardware is viable for an altcoin then it seems like increasing the Bitcoin block size would not be in their best interest. Why not maximize shortterm Bitcoin profits and hedge long term profits with altcoins?

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by codingmyway on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:21AM (#13723367)
Asics can't be redirected to different alt coins that have a different proof of work. They will run to recoup the costs. That is why bitcoin will be more secure even if prices and transactions drop from a move to an alt.

Miners are playing a game of chicken to milk the fees while hoping users don't swerve to another chain.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Retric on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:36PM (#13728149)
Some Asics can mine both Bitcoin and Lightcoin though not at the same time. From a cost perspective they are slightly more expencive, but miners could swap over 2 years to a new coin with minimal issues limiting their long term risks.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by colordrops on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:57AM (#13724751)
I don't see an altcoin beating out bitcoin soon, but if one started gaining traction it would probably have a proof of work system compatible with most miners' asics.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by 6nf on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:21PM (#13720306)
All major miners have spent loads of money purchasing mining hardware, and they all need to run that hardware for a long time just to break even. Higher future Bitcoin prices is critical to their ROI.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by barnacs on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:51PM (#13720488)
I don't understand why the segwit softfork and a block size increase would have to be mutually exclusive.

As segwit generally improves the protocol (makes it more efficient, fixes a transaction malleability issue, increases capacity and gives way to proposed future improvements) and doesn't require a hardfork, I think it makes sense to apply that first.

And if with segwit and all the improvements it enables the capacity still doesn't prove to be enough for the future growth, we can hardfork to dynamically increase the block size.

But for now, we need to do something. Why not do the thing that's simpler to put into effect and provides more benefits?

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by wmf on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:06AM (#13721171)
That's exactly what reasonable people would do. But people are afraid of a bait-and-switch where they activate segwit and then larger blocks are never delivered. Semi-reasonable people are asking for a bundle that includes segwit and larger blocks but no one is offering that yet.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:17PM (#13720614)
Bitcoin nodes have bandwidth limitations, and specifically upload bandwidth. Increasing the blocksize without taking this into consideration kicks nodes off of the network, and decreases decentralization. Right now, a node can be run on a personal internet connection in Australia. Double it, and you hit the limit. Quadruple it, and you effectively stop nodes being hosted here. That's a problem.

Larger blocks are not actually necessary with other layered solutions to bitcoin. The people who are pushing big blocks are mostly uninformed of this reality.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by smokeyj on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:27AM (#13721265)
Running a bitcoin node in grandmas Australian basement was never a long term design constraint.

In an era of Chinese fabricated asics running on state subsidized energy, I fail to see node centralization as a priority.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:52AM (#13721389)
No, you do not understand, or choose to ignore things that are uncomfortable for you to integrate. It's not 'grandmas basement', it's effectively everyone in Australia.

https://www.telstra.com.au/support/category/broadband/fix/ho...

> Connection type : upload bandwidth

> ADSL : Up to 1Mbps

> ADSL2+ : Up to 1Mbps

> Cable (Base Plan) : Up to 1Mbps

> Cable (Speed Boost) : Up to 2Mbps

> nbn™ Fixed Network (Base Plan) : Up to 5Mbps (only available in a small proportion of locations)

> nbn™ Fixed Network (Very Fast Speed Boost) : Up to 20Mbps (only available in a small proportion of locations, and only to business customers)

> nbn™ Fixed Network (Super Fast Speed Boost) : Up to 40Mbps (only available in a small proportion of locations, and only to business customers)

> nbn™ Fixed Wireless : Up to 5Mbp (only available in a small proportion of locations)

Welcome to the world outside of your bubble. A node currently takes up about 35% of the upload bandwidth of an internet connection. At a minimum.

> I fail to see node centralization as a priority.

And therein lies your problem. While you continue to hold to that belief, you will find that the direction of bitcoin will go contrary to your desires.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by out_of_protocol on Thursday February 23, 2017 @03:56PM (#13717703)
Saddest part: the community is super-toxic now (and looks like it was intentional). There are no way to discuss anything that makes sense.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by wmf on Thursday February 23, 2017 @03:50PM (#13717643)
I also enjoy block size drama, but I'm not sure it effects the speculators one way or the other; many of them have probably never created a single on-chain transaction.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Jenya_ on Thursday February 23, 2017 @03:45PM (#13717611)
the final decision will be made by miners anyway
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by kobeya on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:44PM (#13720450)
The battle is over, and not newsworthy outside of small vacal subreddits that statistically few people read.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by leadingthenet on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:07AM (#13722182)
Oh really? Who won then?

Because the way I see it, both SegWit and BU are under 30% activated, and the most plausible future is the status quo.

Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:13PM (#13720259)
A full mempool is by design. Without it, bitcoin can be used as a permanent secure distributed file storage system with massive redundancy. Thanks... I'd prefer to keep it as a non-censorable store of value.
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by TD-Linux on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:52PM (#13719153)
There is no global mempool, it's a per-node thing. I think the default for Bitcoin Core is to hold 300MB of transactions, which means for most nodes the number of transactions in the mempool is constant. A better metric is transaction fees. Here's an example site: https://bitcoinfees.info/
Re:Bitcoin hits 3-year peak, nears record high on U.S. ETF a... by kobeya on Thursday February 23, 2017 @09:51PM (#13720484)
Although that is unfortunately currently being broken by a spam attack.