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Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by closeparen on Thursday February 16, 2017 @11:11PM (#13665856)
It's about people getting to work in a reasonable amount of time and comfort from housing they can afford.

Rich urbanites having ugly roads in their field of vision is not remotely comparable to middle and working class people having to move in with roommates or triple their commute times.

Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by adrianN on Friday February 17, 2017 @01:30AM (#13666365)
It works much better in European cities. Cars are not necessary to have affordable housing that is close to offices. You "just" need denser cities, saner zoning and decent public transport. In my office for example the large majority arrives via bike or public transport. There isn't enough parking space to accomodate even half of the workers.

I live about five kilometers from the office and ride my bike. I pay about twelve Euros per square meter rent. My apartment even has a big yard, I just have to share it with the other tenants. A grocery store is right across the street. The next one is ten minutes walk away.

Live can be pretty nice if city planning isn't completely screwed up.

Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by closeparen on Friday February 17, 2017 @02:24AM (#13666594)
The grocery store they were going to build next door to me was killed because the entire walkable radius around my apartment is the ancestral land of an Indian tribe, and their descendents would rather this site remain the parking lot of a restaurant than 150+ apartments and a bunch of retail. My nearest grocery store remains 2+ miles uphill.

Mountain View looks like a small town in order to protect the habitat of a burrowing owl.

There's always some reason not to densify where people have already settled. We sprawl because it's the only thing we can get away with.

Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by AstralStorm on Friday February 17, 2017 @08:51AM (#13668220)
Wow, 2 miles, that is almost walking distance. If you had a tram, that would be just minutes away.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by dashundchen on Friday February 17, 2017 @02:10PM (#13670840)
And is definitely easy biking distance. If transit isn't an option, maybe residents could lobby for bike and pedestrian infrastructure as an alternative.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by dashundchen on Thursday February 16, 2017 @11:22PM (#13665909)
When density is so low outside a city's relatively tiny core, like in most American cities, it's no surprise areas with short commute times are so expensive. Maybe if we densified our cities prices wouldn't be so out of whack.

It doesn't have to be Manhattan like densities either. Many German cities, for example, are full of 4, 5, 6 story buildings. Dense enough to support frequent transit and common enough to not have astronomical rents.

Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by closeparen on Thursday February 16, 2017 @11:24PM (#13665921)
Exactly. We should be doing this, and then driving will fall away of its own accord. Not directly attacking driving before/instead of doing this.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by obstinate on Thursday February 16, 2017 @11:47PM (#13666000)
Much of Manhattan is not that dense either. I mean, it's denser than most places, but a decent chunk of it is the exact type of thing you're describing -- five to six story buildings.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by ant6n on Friday February 17, 2017 @12:19AM (#13666126)
You can achieve decent density with town houses & small yards. Like Queens, London, Montreal.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by SomeStupidPoint on Thursday February 16, 2017 @11:22PM (#13665906)
How does supporting driving by subsidizing it help those people over spending the funds on, eg, public transit or denser housing in urban cores?

It sounds like it just increases their health risks and lowers the quality of their landscapes over those other options.

Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by closeparen on Thursday February 16, 2017 @11:36PM (#13665961)
In principle, if you can make a 1:1 atomic swap between driving subsidies and a Manhattan-level subway system, you should do it.

In practice, I think you're likely to eliminate people's current perfectly good option just to lift public transit from abysmal to mediocre. It would depend on the proposal.

Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by gpawl on Friday February 17, 2017 @01:09AM (#13666293)
No one has a perfectly good option today. They have a pollution-choked, collision-prone, 20%-workday-wasting commute.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by robertlagrant on Friday February 17, 2017 @01:35AM (#13666380)
This is exactly it - people are so used to thousands of road deaths a year, funding unpleasant oil-supplying regimes, polluting their neighbourhoods and traffic that they don't realise they are avoidable. As mentioned before, it's a lack of imagination.
Re:Let’s not demonize driving, just stop subsidizing it by gpawl on Friday February 17, 2017 @01:08AM (#13666291)
Poor exurbanites driving unreliable cars an hour or more to get to work is not remotely comparable to rich suburbanites crowing them out of employment-accessible housing.