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Re:AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs and Clock Speeds Leaked by baq on Sunday February 12, 2017 @03:59PM (#13630761)
Lived under a rock for the last year? Rowhammer is a thing now.
Re:AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs and Clock Speeds Leaked by msbarnett on Sunday February 12, 2017 @04:06PM (#13630815)
ECC won't save you from Rowhammer. See the ECC RAM section of http://www.thirdio.com/rowhammer.pdf

On some systems, ECC is flat out broken or silently ignored. On many others ECC errors aren't reported to the OS in granular enough batches to do anything about them.

Edit: relevant portions:

> Before we begin to discuss our results, we must first discuss ECC protected systems and the fact that there are no standards on what constitutes ECC protection or ECC event reporting. At its base level, ECC protection simply means that a server can handle or correct single bit errors, although some systems advertise the ability to correct multiple bit errors. Generally, it is our belief that ECC events should be reported to the operating system so that savvy users can gauge the health of their infrastructure.

> Unfortunately, server vendors routinely use a technique called ECC threshold or the 'leaky bucket' algorithm where they count ECC errors for a period of time and report them only if they reach certain levels of failure. From what we understand, this threshold is commonly above 100 per hour, but this remains a trade secret and varies based on the server vendor. So, to see ECC errors (MCE in Linux or WHEA in Windows), there generally needs to be 100 bit flips per hour or greater. This makes “seeing” Rowhammer on server error logs more difficult.

> In addition, we have observed some server vendors will NEVER report ECC events back to the OS, although they might get logged into IPMI. Typically, users expect to see correctable ECC errors logged directly to the OS or that halt the system when they cannot be corrected. During our investigation into this phenomenon, we even encountered one server that neither reported ECC events to the OS nor halted when bit flips were not correctable. The end result was data corruption at the application level. This is something, in our opinion, that should never happen on an ECC protected server system.

> ...

> Using these advanced techniques, we were able to observe ECC events within the first 3 minutes of test time. Generally, this system would lockup or reboot within 30 minutes. Once again, this was on a Rowhammer mitigated system using both ECC and double refresh. So it follows that dual mitigations, on some systems, appear to be flawed and can be exploited as a denial of service.

Re:AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs and Clock Speeds Leaked by Qantourisc on Sunday February 12, 2017 @05:33PM (#13631439)
Correct me if I am wrong, it won't save you, but it should detect iirc (al least most) and then you can take any required action.

On the fact that it's broken on some systems. Isn't this like complaining about air bags that have been disabled ? It however very good you report that they are broken on some systems.

Re:AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs and Clock Speeds Leaked by dogma1138 on Sunday February 12, 2017 @06:37PM (#13631874)
It can fix single bit flips within the same ECC domain but not 2 or more bit flips. It's also doesn't help much in the detection realm, there are some ways of using performance counters to try to identify rowhammer but it only works on the most obvious attempts.
Re:AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs and Clock Speeds Leaked by dogma1138 on Sunday February 12, 2017 @04:03PM (#13630792)
ECC doesn't completely mitigate against rowhammer style attacks, it makes it more difficult in some cases and prevents single bit flipping attacks but multiple bit flipping attacks against a single ECC domain are still possible.

That said if you want hardware level attacks then attacks against the cachelines of the CPU are considerably more dangerous and reliable and there is very little one can do to mitigate against those.