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A comment on Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API. Parent comment

Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by modeless on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:51PM (#13594627)
There is a difference between "not officially supporting" Vulkan and completely preventing anyone from providing a Vulkan implementation for your platform. Microsoft allows competing APIs to be integrated into their platform at the driver level. Apple does not.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by cma on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:46PM (#13594957)
FWIW, Microsoft doesn't allow that on ARM. Only where they have previous antitrust decisions holding them back (x86).
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by mrec on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @09:36PM (#13595201)
It used to be the case that 3D APIs other than Direct3D couldn't be used from whatever Metro^H Windows Store apps are called this week. Which kind of blocks it at a platform-within-a-platform level.

That may have changed, I dunno.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vondur on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:03PM (#13594711)
Could someone not provide Vulkan driver support on the Mac or is it forbidden by Apple to do so?
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by mrec on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @09:33PM (#13595186)
On Windows, Vulkan support is provided by the IHV graphics drivers from Nvidia, AMD etc. On Mac, Apple themselves ship the drivers (incorporating some portions of IHV code, but ultimately all under Apple's control).
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by kitsunesoba on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @10:00PM (#13595304)
If you're using a newer Nvidia card, you can download and install much more up to date Mac drivers direct from Nvidia's site. Yes, Apple bundles their own drivers but there's nothing stopping hardware vendors from shipping their own Mac drivers.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by dman on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @10:02PM (#13595313)
That still wont change the version of OpenGL supported by the driver as far as I know. If someone has OpenGL 4.5 working on OSX I would be very interested in finding out.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by threeseed on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:04PM (#13594714)
Apple allows you to provide an alternative API on OSX but not on iOS.

Microsoft is exactly the same. They do not support custom APIs on Windows Mobile AFAIK.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by modeless on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:15PM (#13594792)
> Apple allows you to provide an alternative API on OSX

I'll need a source for this claim considering that no driver-level Vulkan implementations are available on macOS.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by jolux on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @01:09AM (#13596193)
macOS is not popular among gamers? I don't understand what the problem is.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by threeseed on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:50PM (#13594973)
No. Provide a source that Apple actively prevents it.

Developers can ask users for their admin password, sudo to root and largely do whatever they want including adding kernel extensions and drivers.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by snuxoll on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @09:06PM (#13595067)
kext's must be signed now, Apple can freely revoke developer certs and block them if they so desire.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by threeseed on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @12:42AM (#13596097)
Signing was designed for security purposes which is the only reason where certificate revocation has been used to date. There seems to be a lot of FUD here but without any actual hard examples.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by stymaar on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @06:49AM (#13597555)
But it prevents doing what you just said above :

> Developers can ask users for their admin password, sudo to root and largely do whatever they want including adding kernel extensions and drivers.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by plorkyeran on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @09:56PM (#13595284)
Having a technical means to make distribution of a driver awkward is quite a few steps short of forbidding it.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by nicky0 on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @05:24AM (#13597216)
But they only use these power to shut out malware. Not to nix software they don't like.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by AlphaSite on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @08:45AM (#13598101)
Windows drivers need to be signed as well, whats the problem?
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by snuxoll on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @11:04AM (#13599258)
But not by Microsoft, you can opt to obtain WHQL certification for your driver and have MS sign them - but it's also acceptable to get a code signing cert from any trusted CA.

Apple controls all the keys for macOS, AFAIK there's not even an option to add additional CA's for code-signing trust. To get around this you have to completely disable SIP, and it's rather stupid to tell users they must disable a well-meaning (if somewhat poorly implemented) security feature to install a kext because Apple doesn't like you (no knowledge if this has happened, but it can, and I don't care for that).

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by stymaar on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @02:39AM (#13596559)
> sudo to root and largely do whatever they want

Not anymore, even being root doesn't give you total control now[1], and custom kernel extensions are among the things that are prohibited.

This «feature» bas been introduced in El Capitan for «security reason».

[1] System Integrity Protection : System Integrity Protection

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by alwillis on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @04:20AM (#13596959)
It's easy to disable System Integrity Protection:

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Se...

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by stymaar on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @06:47AM (#13597553)
Let's not forget the post I was replying to :

> Developers can ask users […]

Have you ever seen anybody shipping software asking their user to do stuff like this to get their software working ?

> Boot to Recovery OS by restarting your machine and holding down the Command and R keys at startup.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vetinari on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @07:02AM (#13597618)
Sure, and your grandma (=proxy for mainstream user) is surely going to do that.

It's simply a no-go for the mainstream market that expects things to just work.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by MikusR on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:19PM (#13594811)
It's a dead platform with no market-share.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by alwillis on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @04:24AM (#13596976)
Latest results of the so-called dead platform--"iPhone, Services, Mac and Apple Watch Set All-Time Records"

http://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/01/apple-reports-record-f...

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by douche on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @05:37AM (#13597272)
I think the parent claim is that Windows Mobile is a dead plarform, which, it pretty much is, after the nokia fiasco.
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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by MikusR on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @02:37PM (#13601324)
Yes. Meant Windows mobile.
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