Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by sydd on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @06:42PM (#13594169)

and the next sentence goes "However, there are well defined mechanisms by which IHVs can ship a Vulkan driver on any version of Windows. But it will be as it is the case now with OpenGL. That is, it is up to the application to negotiate with the implementation to install an appropriate Vulkan driver for the hardware that is on the machine."

Also "Vulkan is available on all versions of Windows that are on DirectX 12, so there is potentially some value to the developer community to having a single API that spans multiple Windows versions."

Vulkan is fully supported on Windows with semi-recent GPUs (e.g. its supported by Nvidia with Geforce 6xx - released in 2012!) by all vendors.

The article is only saying that MS defers what API is supported to GPU manufacturers. Its not supported by Xbox and Windows Phones, but Xbox is a very different market and no one cares about Windows Phone.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by guardiangod on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:06PM (#13594333)

Someone else mentioned that they don't care about Nvidia and AMD both advocating for Vulkan because I'm personally not interested in the big desktop PCs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Compatibility

In addition to Nvidia and AMD, Intel, Imagination Technologies, Qualcomm (!!!), and ARM support Vulkan. Hardware wise, there is absolutely no problem whatsoever.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by mrpippy on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:32PM (#13594491)

Intel has only released beta/test drivers for Windows, and this was their statement as of August:

The current Plan Of Record is that Intel® is not supporting Vulkan on Windows drivers. The drivers that were made available on Developer.com are intended for Vulkan developers.

So, it is expected that some Vulkan drivers may not work for end users.

Intel GPUs power at least 50% of Windows PCs, and I'd guess the number is closer to 70%. Unless this situation changes, Vulkan is not the single cross-platform answer.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by ioquatix on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @10:57PM (#13595600)

Intel has (unofficially?) said they will deliver production quality Vulkan drivers for their iGPUs. https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/developing-games-and...

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by acqq on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @05:10AM (#13597155)

Thanks for providing the link. The relevant quotes:

"Vulkan support right now is for 6th Generation and newer products and we are targeting developers not consumers. Thus why the releases are beta and are listed in the Game Developer Zone and not anywhere else."

is full Vulkan support planned for consumers: "To my knowledge yes, but I do not know when and would not want to hazard a guess"

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by microcolonel on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @08:17PM (#13594801)

Windows 8 and older power more than half of Windows PCs, so Direct3D 12 is no more widely deployed than Vulkan.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by pjmlp on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @03:08AM (#13596676)

It is, given that Vulkan only has quality drivers on Android 7, currently 0.7%, and GNU/Linux, currently 2% of the desktop market, as per Steam dashboard.

Windows 10 is at around 25% currently.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vetinari on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @07:17AM (#13597680)

However, those Windows 7 and 8 machines with AMD and Nvidia GPUs do support Vulkan.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by pjmlp on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @07:46AM (#13597794)

Yes, with these wonderful set of games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Vulkan_supp...

Versus these ones:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_12_...

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vetinari on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @08:15AM (#13597922)

And game availability relates to GPU API support available at the platform... how exactly?

The fact that game studios decide to use one API or another is no factor in evaluating API availability. (Also note how many DX12 games not published by Microsoft are DX12 exclusives - that says something about Microsoft motives, but not about API qualities).

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by pjmlp on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @08:29AM (#13598004)

> And game availability relates to GPU API support available at the platform... how exactly?

When given the option, professional game developers choose the one that better helps them achieving their goals.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vetinari on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @10:32AM (#13598983)

There's a reason why DX had almost zero adaptation outside games. Maybe it is not that good API, if you need to support your app for a few years too. Games are fire and forget.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by pjmlp on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @12:08PM (#13599919)

Actually 2D and text rendering, WPF rendering, UWP Composition API, UI animation support.

All of them used by most desktop applications on Windows, including image, video and 3D editing applications.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vetinari on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @12:32PM (#13600170)

Not explicitly. It is used by platform libraries that these application use. Given that they are provided by the platform vendor - the same that pushes DX - it's no wonder, that it was being pushed there.

CAD, GIS, or other applications that need to use 3D explicitly, on the other hand.... Basically only Autodesk ventured there, with 3ds Max and AutoCAD (since 2015).

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by pjmlp on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @02:38PM (#13601328)

Well, Autodesk products are market leaders, probably Catia is the only alternative.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by vetinari on Thursday February 09, 2017 @05:37AM (#13605962)

There are actually many CAD packages, with different levels of complexity, from Siemens NX to VariCAD, plus myriads of domain-specific ones, like ArchiCAD.

For example, most of our customers prefer MicroStation, for some reason (no, we are not Bentley shop ;).

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by microcolonel on Thursday February 09, 2017 @09:41AM (#13607197)

I'm sure you can see that 2/5 (approaching half) of the Direct3D 12 titles were published by Microsoft themselves.

And actually, by the numbers there are more titles on Vulkan than there are titles not released by Microsoft on D3D12.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by acqq on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @06:46PM (#13594212)

> by all vendors

NVIDIA and ATI are hardly "all" vendors I care about. I'm personally not interested in the big desktop PCs. YMMV of course. But I'm personally very against "winner takes it all" and I'd really like some more universal web API, especially one that consumes less power on the iOS devices.

Edit: the answer to the question below by sydd: I'm honestly and pragmatically interested in iOS and Apple devices, not Microsoft, and not the Google-controlled ones. All these comments are about Apple's proposal for a standard for Web. I'm with the ones having the smaller market share here. I'm still sad Opera Presto is no more. I consider such "smaller" players extremely important for the web.

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by sydd on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:06PM (#13594332)

Then which vendors do you care about from the Microsoft ecosystem (which this thread is about)? Vulkan is supported by Nvidia, AMD and Intel, I think this covers >99% of the Windows landscape. Windows phone? or Xbox? Hololens?

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by kalleboo on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @10:40PM (#13595508)

Intel does not support Vulkan. They had some beta drivers for devs to test on, but no further plans

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Re:Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API by ioquatix on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @11:07PM (#13595663)

This is not true. Intel has (unofficially?) said they will deliver production quality Vulkan drivers for their iGPUs. https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/developing-games-and...

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