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Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by SilasX on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @03:15PM (#13592330)
If you think that policy is pure benefit for consumers and the only costs are to greedy mustache-twirling men, then there may be another bubble going on.

It would mean that the US uses its leverage to push drug prices down to marginal costs, which would almost be the last domino in payers willing to pay for something like the value of new drugs. But drug development doesn't make sense if you can only charge marginal costs.

The downsides of such a policy are going to be felt long-term; nothing is as simple as "we pay less and they get less".

Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by Sanddancer on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @06:58PM (#13594299)
Or we could start funding medical research through our system of universities and the like. We have immense public and non-profit institutions that can take over. Maybe we'll even be able to see more benefit in treatment of rare and neglected diseases that way.

It also means that a large number of people could actually afford medication, doctors, etc. I have friends who can't afford going to the doctor, can't afford medication, so go without. Their quality of life would greatly improve by them being able to get into the system.

Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by SilasX on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:13PM (#13594378)
Yes, it is definitely a possibility, that we could refactor the whole system and eliminate patents and set up a completely new model for drug development to work. That would affect a lot of stakeholders and be complicated politically, but yes, it's one route to take.

I was only trying to establish that it's not a matter of "here's a single, obviously bad policy that can be clipped out and which only has downsides for greedy capitalists".

Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by surfmike on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:31PM (#13594482)
Indeed, there are not enough incentives for pharma companies to target third world or not-so-common disease, but instead to push things like Viagra. That's one of the things Gates Foundation is helping address but ideally we do it at the government level. Research through grants to universities and labs already fuels a lot of great R&D in the US and I feel like we need to have even more of it for medicine.
Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by chimeracoder on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @11:18PM (#13595715)
> Indeed, there are not enough incentives for pharma companies to target third world or not-so-common disease, but instead to push things like Viagra.

Viagra was originally developed as a medication for cardiovascular disorders and hypertension, which are major problems in both the "third world" and in developed nations. It was only later on that they discovered its use for erectile dysfunction.

As for marketing Viagra - why is that a bad thing? Given that they've already done the bulk of the R&D for it, making money off the blockbuster drugs is exactly how pharmaceutical companies can afford to pour research into drugs that are a lot less likely to succeed, or which target poorer populations.

Or, if you don't want to look at Pfizer, look at Gilead. While it's easy to criticize them for charging so much money for Sovaldi (or charging so much for Tenofovir a decade ago) charging the patients who can afford it for the early years is exactly how they recover their costs and justify things like clinical trials for PrEP (which, it's easy to forget today, were a massive risk at the time), or direct market subsidizes of PrEP for people who can't afford it otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something similar for Sovaldi in the next decade as well.

Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by doggydogs94 on Wednesday February 08, 2017 @12:48AM (#13596116)
Viagra is the only expensive drug that people willingly pay full price for.
Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by prostoalex on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @11:59PM (#13595881)
If the system you're describing is easy to set up and promises similar (or better) results at lower costs, why aren't other countries adopting it?
Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by scarmig on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @03:20PM (#13592373)
Funding research through banning a buyer from negotiating with its suppliers is pretty much the definition of a Rube Goldberg device.

I don't think anyone would dispute that that's a major way that research is currently funded, but it's fundamentally stupid. You've got a bunch of free riders, and it obscures where and why costs are actually incurred.

Allow negotiation, and then figure out clear, rational funding mechanisms.

Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by SilasX on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @03:45PM (#13592611)
>Funding research through banning a buyer from negotiating with its suppliers is pretty much the definition of a Rube Goldberg device.

It's exactly how normal (non-monopsony) markets work in every context, including markets for intellectual works/IP.

Note: in this context, "negotiating" means "turning the national market into a monopsony". It's generally recognized as not-a-pure-good-thing when e.g. Walmart comes close to doing that and forces sellers to nearly take a loss in return for access to Walmart's market.

(And before anyone makes the obvious point, yes, I know "health care ain't a can of beans etc etc etc". But with respect to the dangers of monopsonies, it's close enough.)

Re:YC Research: Universal Healthcare by pessimizer on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @07:31PM (#13594481)
If the government wants to fund drug development, it can fund it directly by buying research studies and proposals for studies rather than drugs from the drug companies. Something needs to be done to remove the incentives to falsify or exaggerate results and endlessly pursue me-too drugs.