Not true with modern EV batteries. Tesla's packs typically show less than 8% degradation after 100,000 miles, which would be approximately 500 cycles.
https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-da...
[1]: https://electrek.co/2016/07/26/tesla-upgrade-software-limite...
Thats only for certain specific model and delivery time combinations.
i.e just before they introduced the 90kWh option in production, some 85kWh cars were shipping with the 90kWh pack.
If you ordered a particular pack before the next step size started shipping, then that's all you got.
>Tesla batteries only show very little degradation because their capacity is limited by software
Not true. It's mostly to do with active management of the battery, and keeping it within the optimal conditions for much of it's life. These are things your phone and laptop can't (or rather: don't) do.
Everyone tends to plug in their laptop/phone and charge to 100%, then leave it there for long periods of time. Plus, laptops and phones tend to get very hot, and there's no active cooling of the battery.
This combination of conditions tends to reduce the life of batteries significantly.
Why is this a problem for Lithium batteries?
Tesla recommends that their customers to charge to only about 80% for normal daily driving, and that if they need the full 100% range that they should start driving very soon after it reaches 100% charge. They also recommend not leaving it at empty for very long too as empty cells are more likely to drop below their minimum voltage, and die.
It's now four years old, has driven over 45,000 miles (well over 500 cycles) and the total degradation is less than 10%.
https://survey.pluginamerica.org/model-s/charts.php
I'd say it looks like they behave rather well in general.
Guy #2: No it won't.
Guy #3: Do you have any sources that disprove that claim?
The onus is on the person making the ridiculous claim.
I can tell you from personal experience I have had a Nissan LEAF for about 2.5 years and ~24k miles, driven daily and it has lost no range whatsoever. But if you want a study or something, you're gonna have to Google for yourself man.
Both you and 'jjawssd are making claims, and you're very confident that 'jjawssd is wrong.
This is a bullshit statistic that has somehow become a meme on the internet. It just flat out isn't true.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone who expresses that level of confidence to have something to back it up. And if the false claim is so widespread, I'd also expect someone to have busted it and publicized it. From my outside, ignorant point of view, both sides are unproven, with an edge to you because of your own experience.
I'm sure you have devices in your own life that disprove his claim. Look at your phone. Does it really go to 50% capacity after 500 days? None of mine have. Sure batteries degrade over time and you'll experience better performance one day or worse another, but he's claiming after 500 days of using your phone you should be at 50% capacity. That's obviously baloney.
When I first read your comment, I thought you were a little over the top, but it sounded like you likely had something solid to back it up, so I was interested in learning something new. Personally, I don't make strong statements like that unless I can pretty quickly defend them. I honestly wasn't trying to catch you out. And seeing a myth busted is generally a good time!
As for phone batteries, I just had to replace mine, so that's not a particularly useful example. As I understand it, there's a lot of circuitry in phone batteries these days anyway, so I'm not sure what failed. I'm not going to use my anecdotal evidence for or against your case, for what it's worth.
Be well!
I don't save a folder full of links to answer skeptical people on the internet and I'm not going to Google for you. If you're interested in reading articles, go look for yourself.
Anyway whatever. This has been a colossal waste of time.
Next time just say "sorry I don't have hard evidence for this opinion on hand". Nobody expects you to know everything but they do expect you to treat people decently.
Are you relying only on the 12 bar indicator or on the more detailed data download from the car's telemetry? My car still shows 12 bars, but has obviously lost some capacity (max range at 100% charge is down to about 95 from 102/103), just like my phone that still charges to "100%" but obviously has way less capacity after 3 years.
From my perspective, losing "no range whatsoever" after 2.5 years is the extraordinary claim.
If his claims about losing 50% capacity after 500 cycles were remotely true that would be the main cause of lost range ina 2.5 year old LEAF.