... including discrimination against boys/men - which quota regulation and "women only" programs are (imagine the outcry if one would replace "women only" by "white people only").
If we had a CS field dominated almost entirely by women then the "women only" programs would be undesirable.
This is a man in a boat protesting that a drowning woman is being helped out of the water but he is receiving no such equivalent assistance.
I live in Germany - and there the situation is IMHO different.
The problem isn't about access to courses. It's that existing programmes don't appeal to women, and it's dumb to ignore half of the population when you need more qualified people. That's why we need to make getting into computer science more attractive to women. Acknowledging that the current system just doesn't work for them is a necessary first step towards making it work for everyone.
The laws for women quota: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13551798
Otherwise:
Nobody forces women to study a non-STEM subject - they decide it themselves. So doing promotional programs for women has the implicit implication "women are too stupid to get on their own what they should study (while men are smart enough to find this out on their own)" - something I would never ever claim.
The reason for outreach programmes is that what's currently offered seems to appeal to men but not nearly as much to women, and that we should fix that. There's nothing patronising about admitting a problem and attempting to alleviate it. Some attempts might be misguided or based on incorrect assumptions, but that shouldn't discredit the entire endeavour.
(Since we're talking about computer science education, I'll disregard the entirely unrelated comment about quotas in businesses.)
There are also (more implicit) women quota in the university laws (Landeshochschulgesetzen) of Germany's federate states e.g. for casting professors.
There are multiple ways to answer the question:
1. I often don't fit in - and don't consider this as a problem.
2. I have yet to see a woman studying a STEM subject who is very skilled at it and made such complaint.
3. Saying one does not study, say, computer science because one does not fit in means that "fitting in" is more important to you than the things you learn in computer science. In other words: You don't consider CS as something really important to you. This is clearly not the inner urge for the subject that I expect from people studying it.
Seriously, you should actually talk to some of these women about their experiences.
> Seriously, you should actually talk to some of these women about their experiences.
I have.
Yes, being an actual liberal in SV and not just a Dem apologist...
My peers in undergrad computer science were as you described, except I would estimate 60-70% Americans, 95% male 5% female.
I now work for a small-ish company with ~25 developers on a few different teams. All men.
I understand that this is anecdotal, though not uncommon.
So it's a problem in CS but not in education or healthcare, where women are the majority?
Solution: introduce programs promoting the field to women and girls.
Problem: women have a huge advantage due to the programs.
...?
In what part of CS women are systematically impeded from involvement?
Whilst we're on the topic, lets also add that non-white men and women and transgendered people have it even worse.
Doing nothing isn't a better idea.
Also, care to name one thinker from history who doesn't advocate discrimination of some sort? Seriously. Who is your model?
[1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-...
Problem is, no one can agree when X happens (or has happened).
"Only when we're safe will it make sense to no longer spy on all our citizens."
"Only when our enemies are defeated will it make sense to no longer have Emperor Caesar."
Discrimination.
It has been justified for centuries with all manner of reasoned arguments. Hopefully we will eventually learn discrimination is a Bad Idea.