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Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Sunday January 29, 2017 @06:53PM (#13517600)
Hey, thank you for your input.

We are aware of the importance of those three things. They're all not-trivial problems to solve, but we're working on all three:

1) Performance is an insanely complex problem. We can't easily measure the "real" performance, in a scientific way. We can measure performance of so called "microbenchmarks" which can tell you that, for example, our JavaScript engine can perform X million regular expression computations per second. The X may be higher or lower than what Chakra or V8 can, but how it translates to real world experience is insanely complicated. What we know by now is that JS engine performance is not the problem. At this point all modern engines are fast. What we need to advance are things like performance of DOM, CSS, layout, painting and prioritization (ability to ensure that UI performance cannot be blocked by website's JS computations). We're working hard on several projects this year, under the umbrella of codename "quantum" that is aiming at making Firefox blazingly fast. We're taking lessons and code from Servo and applying it in Firefox. The end result, if we succeed, is that we'll have ability to perform DOM, layout, CSS and painting orders of magnitude faster (even if it's 2x it's still huge!). The other piece of performance, is what's called perceived performance. That one is even more tricky because it's all about what your brain tells you. In cognitive psychology and HCI there are tons of studies that prove that depending on how we use tricks like animation, colors, shapes and gimmicks like focus, we can trick your eye to think that things are faster or slower. Chrome is really good at that and kudos to them! I love watching their UI painting order in 120fps slow-mo just to see all the things they employed. Together with Quantum we're going to look into ways to improve the perceived performance of Firefox. I hope we'll get it right :)

2) On the privacy front we're working with Tor browser and we're also working on several projects aiming at disrupting the current way of browsing the Internet. Read about Firefox+Tor browser and Activity Streams if you're interested.

3) On the QA front, we've made major progress over the last year. That's a huge part of the technical debt that we had to remodel in 2016. We now have much better fuzzers, tests and APIs that makes it easier to write code that will not break. On top of that, multi-process helps us make sure that painting crash doesn't crash your browser, that plugins can't crash your browser and finally that content can't crash your browser. We also designed a whole new language that is significantly better suited to write security critical code than C++ is. It's called Rust and we just started moving pieces of our engine to it. If we can succeed with this, we should end up with a codebase of the unprecedented stability for a project this size and facing third-party code. If you're interested, read about Mozilla Oxidation project.

It is a major bet. We're betting on JS, we're betting on Rust. We're betting on Gecko and our ability to "change the engine mid-flight". I'm excited about the opportunity, but it's going to be a huge effort to pull it off.

If any of this is interesting for you, help us! We're a small team (compared to all other browser engines), but we have a culture that fosters community participation and I believe that we can compete and shape the Web together: https://whatcanidoformozilla.org/

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by wcunning on Monday January 30, 2017 @12:10AM (#13518849)
All of these things have been working fine for me, and unlike many people, my experience is consistently that Chrome has significantly worse performance than Firefox. That said, I cannot remotely condone the removal of Xul without a firm commitment to either replicate functionality or a firm commitment that it will never happen, publicly. I love pentadactyl and Vimperator, and the idea that they may get killed permanently is infuriating, but not as much as the fact that the wiki page on that functionality has gone dormant.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by buovjaga on Monday January 30, 2017 @08:44AM (#13521050)
For Vimperator etc., follow this report: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1215061
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by mrec on Sunday January 29, 2017 @08:25PM (#13517984)
I've been a happy Netscape/MAS/Seamonkey/Firefox user since forever, and am delighted that it still has a healthy development pulse.

Performance hasn't really been an issue for me, even on an ancient (6-year-old) laptop. Anything on shadertoy reliably kills it, but other than that it's been fine.

If I had to pick one thing that really needs improvement, it'd be the intersection of extensions and security. FF has always leaned heavily on extensions to avoid feature bloat in the core product, but I've never really been comfortable installing them because pretty much all of them seem to demand full access to page content on all sites, and that's a very uncomfortable ask for things like primary webmail or banking sites.

Now, you could imagine a honking great siteXextension matrix for this, bikeshed refinements until the cows come home and then bikeshed the cows, but I think you could get 95% of the way there with a way to persistently flag domains as "paranoid", and have all extensions disabled on those domains. Maybe something like this already exists, but if so I haven't been able to find it. The best advice seems to be "use a separate profile", but that's pretty inconvenient for heavily-used things like webmail.

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by wamatt on Sunday January 29, 2017 @07:36PM (#13517777)
This all sounds really encouraging. I've become a vocal supporter of Firefox again since switching back a year ago. On that note, it may seem trivial to the average user, however it would be great if the powers that be could consider not forcing UI animation on the user without any possibility to disable it. IMHO one of Firefox's greatest assets is it's rich legacy in user choice and customization. Many users (myself included) reluctantly switched away for performance and security reasons back in the day. With that said and while sensitive people are a minority group, we do exist and UI animation can cause elevated stress and fatigue.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Sunday January 29, 2017 @07:48PM (#13517829)
great point. I haven't read about this experience, but I believe you. I know that there are different kind of animations that trigger different reactions (like, fade in text is different from things shifting on the screen).

Please, track Mozilla progress over the next months if you have the time. We're drafting a workforce to start the UX updates and I hope we'll get voices like yours well represented. I'll make sure to post about it on HN once we begin.

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by neurobot on Monday January 30, 2017 @07:36AM (#13520645)
the best way to improve Firefox is inspect popular add-ons on Firefox, what they offer on their add-ons.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by michaelmrose on Monday January 30, 2017 @12:42AM (#13518964)
On desktop firefox for linux I notice that chrome makes vastly better use of gpu acceleration given nvidia card + official nvidia drivers are there plans for improvements on this front. This is literally the only reason to run anything but firefox on any device I have and would love to see improvements on that front. Without tweaking in about config my wifes computer which is anything but blazing fast with a dual core 3 ghz full screen 1080p video was like a slide show. Even after its noticably laggy to the point where I've had to install chrome.

I'm not sure if it makes any difference whether its flash or html5 video.

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by niutech on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:41PM (#13553177)
Have you set the about:config preference layers.acceleration.force-enabled to true?
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:50AM (#13522722)
did you report bug on bugzilla.mozilla.org ? If not, please do and include all the details you can about your platform.

Graphic driver bugs are nasty :)

Hope we'll be able to address it and remove the one and only reason you can't use Firefox!

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by michaelmrose on Monday January 30, 2017 @02:22PM (#13524177)
I don't think per se its a bug. It just seems to be relying on the cpu vs gpu and the cpu isn't incredibly fast. Its dual core phenom II 3 Ghz
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by ianopolous on Sunday January 29, 2017 @07:46PM (#13517821)
This all sounds AWESOME. I can't wait to try it all out.

Another out there idea would be a protocol handler for the IPFS protocol.

I also have some JS benchmarks from a real world app involving encryption and erasure coding in JS where Chrome significantly outperforms Firefox if you're interested (I'm talking 3.3X faster).

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Sunday January 29, 2017 @08:51PM (#13518082)
We definitely want JS benchmarks. Please, if you can, file bugs at bugzilla.mozilla.org in Core::JavaScript Engine.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by voltagex_ on Sunday January 29, 2017 @11:25PM (#13518642)
What do I do if as a normal user I find what appear to be Javascript issues? e.g. the Deluge and SabNZBd interfaces can cause massive slowdown in Firefox where Chrome seems unaffected. Often these pages are behind logins and contain sensitive information.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by cpeterso on Monday January 30, 2017 @12:21AM (#13518891)
Filing bugs on bugzilla.mozilla.org in the "Core::JavaScript Engine" component for performance problems should get the problems in front of the right Firefox developers. However, many site performance problems are related to DOM or animations and not necessarily JavaScript. For slow sites behind logins, there's not much that can be done other than someone creating a standalone test case or working with the site owner to get a temporary test account.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by nachtigall on Monday January 30, 2017 @04:12AM (#13519603)
Worst thing is that a site does not work with Firefox, so that one is forced to use Chrome.

Happens for the map at Google Flights (https://www.google.de/flights/) that is the No 1 search result when googling for Flights (that's of course a clever move by Google to create a top site that only works fine with Chrome, I wonder how long it will take that YouTube or GMail only work "optimal" with Chrome)

Anyway, I filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1329141 but this is only P3 priority (that is, marked a "valid" bug but nobody is working on it). Which I found really "strange" because website not working in Firefox and being force to temporally switching to Chrome (and maybe staying) are the worst that can happen. Eventually, when booking a flight I even had to tell other family members that they should use Chrome for it (who were surprised because normally I tell them to use Firefox ;)

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Monday January 30, 2017 @12:02PM (#13522850)
Thanks for reporting this!

P3 is not that bad tbh. I understand that for each one of us the bug that affects us is the most important one, but working with bugzilla is a bit like data mining. We have 1.3 million bugs reported and we track our respective components, cluster similar bugs and solutions and prioritize what is affecting most people in most crucial ways.

The fact that your bug got triaged and [gfx-noted] is a good sign. It's on their triageboard now and may soon get clustered with other Google website related graphics bugs. You'll get an email when it happens.

Thanks for your help!

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Monday January 30, 2017 @02:39AM (#13519312)
> What do I do if as a normal user

That really depends how "normal" the user is.

If you have basic HTML/JS/CSS skills, you can try to minimize the testcase - https://css-tricks.com/reduced-test-cases/

If you don't, you can always contact the website author and inform him about performance problems and ask him to get in touch with us. He does have access to the whole website and could help us get a temporary account for us to investigate.

If you have more knowledge and curiosity, you can even use our performance devtools to generate a profile. It's actually fairly easy - just start recording in the performance tab and do what you would normally do that is slow.

Then file a bug and attach the profile.

This will give us an insight into what takes so much time. It may not be enough, but sometimes it is, and in those cases we are able to "peak" into what your Firefox is spending so much CPU cycles on.

It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing :)

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by AnsemWise on Sunday January 29, 2017 @10:33PM (#13518446)
+1 to your efforts. Switching to Firefox tomorrow.
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:59AM (#13522821)
Thank you! Hope you'll enjoy the ride :)
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by neotek on Monday January 30, 2017 @06:07AM (#13520109)
You know, I haven't used Firefox in many years - I switched to Chrome because I liked the Google account integration and preferred the UI - but reading your comment made me realise how foolish I've been not to at least check it out once in a while.

You guys clearly care deeply about the web, and while I'm sure Google cares too I feel like their primary motivation is becoming more to do with maintaining their ad revenue sources than advancing the state of the art.

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:51AM (#13522739)
Thank you so much! It means a lot to me to read so many positive comments.

I've been a volunteer for Mozilla since 2000 and got hired in 2010. I've been through thick and thin, and I deeply believe in Mozilla Manifesto and care about the role we serve in making the Internet a public resource.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by wofo on Monday January 30, 2017 @03:35AM (#13519481)
Thanks! I am going to give Firefox another try :)
Re:Chrome Widevine DRM can no longer be disabled by zbraniecki on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:59AM (#13522827)
Please, report any problems you encounter. We can't fix things we don't know about :)