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Re:What’s up with Firefox? by disordinary on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:33PM (#13485117)
They were simply too late to the market, but they had to do something, if they stick to the same course they will always have a very small slice of the mobile market as most people don't replace the browser on their mobile

I'm surprised that Google and in particular Apple aren't coming under scrutiny from competition watchdogs as Microsoft did with IE in the early 2000s.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by ocdtrekkie on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:48PM (#13485290)
Google has an incredible amount of money invested in our federal government here in the US. Including at least one former FTC Commissioner in their pocket. :)

Competition watchdogs in almost every other first world country, however, are investigating Google for various antitrust claims.

Apple doesn't get a lot of scrutiny from competition watchdogs because they aren't a monopoly anywhere. Heck, outside the US, the iPhone has a pretty tiny market share.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by sangnoir on Thursday January 26, 2017 @04:00AM (#13489829)
Google spent $0/year lobbying until Microsoft and the "Fair search" coalition did a lot of anti-Google lobbying in the US and the EU. They also didn't start building up a patent warchest until they were involved in a patent thermonuclear war.

I don't find patents or lobbyists particularly agreeable - but for an organization of a certain size to go without them in the 21st century is likely a very expensive strategic error.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by ocdtrekkie on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:54PM (#13494125)
Google's PAC, NetPAC, well predates the formation of FairSearch, by at least two years.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by Certhas on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @04:18PM (#13486215)
An important difference is that you have a choice between iPhone and Android, where you had no choice but Windows.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by disordinary on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @04:32PM (#13486380)
At the time you had Mac os (or early iterations of OSX), desktop Linux, Beos, os2, etc.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by mwfunk on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @05:26PM (#13486857)
Sure, but Windows had (and still has) a monopoly on desktop operating systems. Being a monopoly doesn't mean you have 100% market share, but rather that you're (a) the dominant player, and (b) your market share is considered sufficiently high that it can be leveraged to modify the market forces themselves. When you're a monopoly, additional antitrust requirements apply to you that don't apply to the lesser players in that market.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by disordinary on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @05:59PM (#13487090)
In 2001 when the lawsuits were happening Windows (Desktop and Server) had 80% market share, Android has 88% now. And while you can switch to iOS it's prohibitive in that you have to buy dedicated hardware.

In 2001 if you wanted to switch off Windows you could buy BeOS, Linux, or OS2 and run it on the same computer that you had windows on. Back then I did just that, switching from Windows to BeOS when BeOS was made free, I did my university work on BeOS running on a Toshiba laptop that came with Windows.

Right now if you have an iPhone or Android phone you have very little option to switch operating system on your device.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by pwinnski on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:17PM (#13487522)
Android doesn't have 88% of the US market, only the world market.[0]

Also, what got MS in trouble was their contracts with hardware vendors. Companies like Compaq were required to pay MS for a Windows license even on computers they sold without Windows installed, and that was an abuse of MS' power. If Google is charging companies for Android even for phone they sell without Android installed, that would be analogous.

[0] "While Android continues to grow its share of the global smartphone market, it is actually losing share in the U.S. Kantar’s data shows Android phones making up 55 percent of U.S. smartphone sales compared with more than 60 percent in the same period a year ago." http://www.recode.net/2017/1/11/14239038/iphone-apple-androi...

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by Certhas on Thursday January 26, 2017 @08:36AM (#13491142)
I'm pretty sure it wasn't 80% of the Desktop market. More likely 90%+ according to what I could find, with MacOS being in the 3-4 percent and Linux at less than 1%.

And yeah, sure, you could run OS/2 or even BeOS, but these never reached statistically significant penetration.

Just as today you can run Sailfish, or Cyanogen/Lineage, etc... the latter supposedly has a market share of 3% or so. Better than BeOS, Linux, etc... in 2001.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by paulddraper on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:38PM (#13485176)
> Remember when we prosecuted Microsoft for bundling a browser with an OS? Imagine the future we'd live in if we'd be willing to let one tech company amass that much power.

> Thank God we nipped that in the bud.

https://xkcd.com/1118/

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by ocdtrekkie on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:57PM (#13485392)
The alt text on this comic is beautiful.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by yellowapple on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @06:55PM (#13487408)
It ain't quite accurate, though, since we can write "Fa¢ebook", "Goog£e", and "App£e" ;)
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by paulddraper on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:32PM (#13487642)
¢ doesn't quite do it, though...
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by vacri on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @11:38PM (#13488773)
Fac€book?

Alternatively, ƒacebook, but that's probably too subtle (and a minor currency anyway).

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by MawNicker on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:34PM (#13485132)
It's not like it was before. JIT engines made the situation more complicated. The security problems are hard.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by emn13 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:50PM (#13485314)
That's a pretty lame exuse: if anything, OS integrated JIT engines are likely to be less secure, and a more diverse engine ecosystem makes attacks less attractive. Witness how JIT engines don't cause many problems (and never really have caused many problems) on desktop. Which isn't to say they're immune from security risks, just that there are lots of other components that pose just as many risks (or more), which are not (or cannot) be avoided - not least of which the first-party JIT.

Furthermore, many exploits don't care if their running on a JIT or on a scripting engine - that's an implementation detail. And if you really cared about security, you could design a verifiable native subset (as several systems have done) - webassembly shows that even slow standardization processes that need much more complicated cross-device compatibility can move meaningfully in that direction.

Disallowing non-first party JITs completely for security reasons is at best delusional, but more likely intentionally anti-competitive. Minor security bonuses are just gravy.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by comex on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:29PM (#13485701)
Also, as noted elsewhere in this thread, the App Store rules explicitly ban third-party browsing engines, so it doesn't help even if you go without a JIT entirely.
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by pjmlp on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @04:28PM (#13486326)
> OS integrated JIT engines are likely to be less secure,

I imagine you never used a mainframe OS.

Re:What’s up with Firefox? by emn13 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @02:59AM (#13489571)
I never have - what are you getting at?
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by pjmlp on Thursday January 26, 2017 @03:19AM (#13489670)
Most of them use "OS integrated JIT engines".
Re:What’s up with Firefox? by disordinary on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:47PM (#13485283)
Yeah, but on the other hand there are only a handful of companies that make Browsers, and even fewer that make browser engines. The vendors could pay Apple to audit the codebases and it would be worth it to be on the platform.