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Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by shard972 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:27AM (#13478823)
> "alternative facts"

I think people are taking this and running at breakneck speed without stopping to look at what they actually mean by this.

After watching the first few press conferences and Kelly Anne's interviews where she said that, it seems clear to me they weren't trying to say there were more people physically at the inauguration in their "alternative facts" but what they are referring to specifically is the viewership.

It's very possible they are correct in saying this and I guess their point is "well the media isn't reporting on these facts so we are going to present them ourselves".

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by jaredklewis on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:46AM (#13478946)
Direct quote from Sean Spicer:

> This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in-person and around the globe

If "in-person" doesn't mean "physically at the inauguration" what does it mean then? It is not ambiguous.

Spicer made an unsubstantiated claim, and has since been defensively walking it back to the equally unsubstantiated second part of "around the globe."

"The media" is a very broad category, so I am not going to universally defend or attack them. But the Trump administration has simply been making things up and, as of yet, has not backed up any of these statements with evidence.

The media is a bit more hit or miss. It is true that some media outlets seem determined to make fun of Trump no matter what he does. That doesn't give Trump a free pass to make up shit. Obama had to deal with the same crap.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by warrenpj on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:02AM (#13479621)
The phrase "both in-person and around the globe" is ambiguous. It could mean either that there were more witnesses in person, and more witnesses around the globe, or it could mean that the total number of witnesses, anywhere, was the largest ever. This is the (terrible) beauty of it: a supporter can believe the former, while the administration needs only to defend the latter.

The phrase "alternative facts" too is ambiguous and, in the way it was used by Conway is classical doublethink. Doublethink involves two actions: a public lie and wilful self-delusion. One interpretation (without context) of the phrase "alternative facts" is that the facts are merely unknown and up for debate. But one merely needs to look at a photo of the inauguration to see that the facts are that Obama had higher attendance in 2009. [1] To claim otherwise is a lie.

Another is that the _true_ facts are known, but Conway is explicitly stating: these are the facts which I am telling you to believe. This is the wilful self-delusion.

From 1984:

And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed – if all records told the same tale – then the lie passed into history and became truth. "Who controls the past," ran the Party slogan, "controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered. Whatever was true now was true from everlasting to everlasting. It was quite simple. All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your own memory. "Reality control," they called it: in Newspeak, "doublethink."

[1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38716191

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:11AM (#13479380)
> If "in-person" doesn't mean "physically at the inauguration" what does it mean then? It is not ambiguous.

The ambiguity isn't what "in-person" means, it's what "both in-person and around the globe" means. Does it mean "both 1) in person and 2) around the globe (each independently)" or does it mean "both (the total sum) in person and around the globe"?

Obviously the second is more strained, but it's not completely absurd, especially if you allow for the inelegant phrasing common in live briefings.

It's easy to find things like this if what you're really looking for is to start a fight.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by jaredklewis on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:49AM (#13479563)
Good point. Of course, it's still total B.S. since they just made the claim up.

On the other hand he spent the whole press conference talking about metro ridership, the national parks service, and the physical event, which leads me to think in context that they weren't talking about tv. Never even mentioned the word tv actually.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by VickBear on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:57AM (#13479326)
Why are you ignoring the second part of the sentence? He even clarified that he was saying total number of viewership (in person, TV, streaming). There is way more access to watching the Inauguration today than 4 years ago.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by TheGirondin on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:02AM (#13481892)
>> This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in-person and around the globe

>If "in-person" doesn't mean "physically at the inauguration" what does it mean then? It is not ambiguous.

You're right, it's not ambiguous. "In-person and around the globe" is clearly means viewing on TV or online streaming.

You are deliberately ignoring the "around the globe" part to create "alternative facts" of your own.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:31AM (#13478849)
> * they are referring to...the viewership*

Charitably, Conway might have meant that Trump's inauguration may have been the largest if TV viewers are counted. Unfortunately, that's not what she said. You can't be both unambiguous and wrong, repeatedly, in any human game (EDIT: and win).

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by stavrianos on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:34AM (#13478876)
Bet you I can!
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:00AM (#13479614)
> After watching the first few press conferences and Kelly Anne's interviews where she said that, it seems clear to me they weren't trying to say there were more people physically at the inauguration in their "alternative facts" but what they are referring to specifically is the viewership.

In the original claim, Spicer explicitly claimed Trump's audience was the greatest both in-person and by remote media (and stated I. a way which clearly implied this was beyond debate and supported by incontrovertible evidence), and, in any case, the only metrics I've seen anyone bring out for the revised claim (for which, incidentally, the Administration provided no evidence) also are indicative of it being false (but not absolutely conclusive on that pointz as published metrics aren't available for all media channels, particularly many non-YouTube online channels.)

At best Spicer both seriously misspoke and referenced separate standards when he meant to reference an aggregate and, even so, presented rank hopeful speculation as certain fact.

But even that stretches plausibility considerably.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by rdtsc on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:12AM (#13479100)
See I don't even know why people care. Everyone latched on that phrase and keep belaboring it. Wonder how many hours were spent totally talking about how many people at the inauguration. Why not talk about other stuff, cabinet picks, TPP, aid cancellation, Federal hiring freeze except such and such, etc.

This is like the media equivalent of bike shedding. Other stuff is complicated so they latched on to that phrase...

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by Symbiote on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:32AM (#13479748)
People care because the White House was seen to be lying in one of the first statements made to the press.

If, instead, they'd just said n-thousand people attended, and made some comment about bad weather, the attention would have moved on to the next thing a lot sooner.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by rdtsc on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @05:40AM (#13480300)
Well when wasn't the White House lying :-). I guess I've come to expect very little from govt officials. It still seems like bike shedding to me
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by beatpanda on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:32AM (#13478855)
No, it's still false when you count viewership. This has been covered by countless news organizations. You are making a mistake by imagining that these people are operating in good faith.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by flukus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:34AM (#13478874)
Has anyone actually done an unbiased comparison? I've seen the picture but there are plenty of possible explanations for that.

And people seem to be reading far to much into it in any case.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by Sgt_Apone on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:05AM (#13479048)
You can watch the full timelapse PBS compiled that shows from start to end of the inauguration[1]. It's nowhere near the numbers they were trying to suggest.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdantUf5tXg

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by sigmar on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:57AM (#13479013)
>Has anyone actually done an unbiased comparison? I've seen the picture but there are plenty of possible explanations for that.

What better way to compare attendance of an outdoor event other than photos? There are also DC metro numbers, but they don't seem necessary as we have high-resolution images.

>And people seem to be reading far to much into it in any case.

Seems emblematic of bigger issues. Such as: unwillingness to correct previous mistakes, a penchant for conspiracy theories, ego disrupting day-to-day operations.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by flukus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:07AM (#13479062)
> What better way to compare attendance of an outdoor event other than photos?

Someone posted a good list of possible ways this could be misleading yesterday: http://www.datasciencecentral.com/profiles/blogs/there-are-l...

As far as reading too much into it, I meant that the election of the first black president was a much bigger deal then the 40 somethingth white old dude. I'd expect trumps turnout to be lower and I'm not sure why it would be news in the first place.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by sigmar on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:26AM (#13479178)
> I meant that the election of the first black president was a much bigger deal then the 40 somethingth white old dude

But that (and many of the questions in that link) are not relevant to the specific question of how many people were at the inauguration. Which is the topic at hand. Those questions would be more relevant in a discussion of drawing other conclusions from the attendance numbers

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by flukus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:31AM (#13479199)
I'm just trying to work out why it became a thing in the first place. Was Trump trying to play up attendance numbers or was someone trying play up the lack of them to be something meaningful?
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by an_account on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:53AM (#13479309)
There are tons of valid reasons why there was less attendance at this inauguration (many listed in the link you posted), which is exactly why it's weird and disgusting that Trump is blatantly lying about having attendance he very clearly didn't have.

It's not that big of a deal, and doesn't mean much that there was less attendance. The weather was bad and it was not historically significant because he's not the first black (or anything significant) president ever. So why is he so blatantly lying? He could just move on and it would be no big deal... but instead he makes a very large deal about it, dedicating a special press briefing specifically to make up lies about to explain how the media got it wrong.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by jeffgreco on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:50AM (#13479296)
The media mentioned it a bit on Friday, even more on Saturday due to the Womens March outdrawing the Inauguration itself, and Trump couldn't handle the coverage.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by bobwaycott on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:35AM (#13479220)
I'm guessing it wound up news because of the boasts and claims made by Trump and his staff about how it was the best turnout ever, with fictitious numbers added in to the claims.

For the health of the republic, I'm keen to see the media become the adversary calling out lies, lies, and all damn lies. No matter what they are. Maybe then we can be free of all the lies.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by kevinkimball on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:32AM (#13479206)
He's 70 FWIW
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by bobwaycott on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:37AM (#13479229)
GP wasn't giving an age. GP stated Trump was the 40-something-th white old dude to be president.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:47AM (#13478952)
> people seem to be reading far to much into it in any case

Executive orders, cabinet appointments and apparently agency gag orders left right and centre with more, plus SCOTUS nominees, to come. But all my Facebook feed talks about is rain and lawn coverings.

Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by knieveltech on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:55AM (#13478997)
Really? My facebook feed is a nonstop stream of political organization, grass-roots advocacy, media takedowns of the day's latest outrage, and the odd picture of someone's dog.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by flukus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:53AM (#13479578)
Good chance you've created your own bubble.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by knieveltech on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:33AM (#13481588)
Chance has nothing to do with it. I've intentionally sought out the groups that I follow and the people I socialize with.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by flukus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @04:56PM (#13486604)
Just don't look surprised if Trump gets re-elected. And don't pretend to know what his voters interests are.
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by ftlio on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:31AM (#13478847)
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by reddytowns on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:55AM (#13478996)
FYI, NSFW
Re:George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on... by skylan_q on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:29AM (#13478837)
but only the media can be right cause DRUMPF