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Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by brd529 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:46AM (#13454001)
I don't agree with Peter Thiel often but I do agree with his quote mentioned in the article - SF is "structurally hostile to families."

As someone who is trying to raise school-age kids in San Francsico the insanity of the school lottery process is one of the greatest problems. We have so many friends who drive an extra hour every morning to take their kids to their algorithmically chosen school across the city. This when there is a great school in walking distance.

Don't get me started on Algebra. SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools.

My happiest friends with kids in the city home-school.

Public transportation is OK for adults, but if you have more than one kid good luck. That's why you see in this report that parents with kids are driving everywhere.

And of course, space. Since SF won't build, there is no space.

The parks are great, the playgrounds are great. Most neighborhoods give you everything you need in walking distance: park, playground, library, grocery. Except schools. You're going to drive past your local school to get to the "fairly chosen" one.

We had three candidates running for school board who supported neighborhood schools and an end to this madness. They all lost.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by iaw on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:01AM (#13454049)
Peter Thiel is brilliantly observant and often makes correct observations, it's the conclusions he draws afterwards that I find to be specious.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by maxxxxx on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:07PM (#13455985)
Making observations is much easier than coming up with solutions. Marx's analysis of capitalism was right on too.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by api on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:23PM (#13456050)
... as was Ayn Rand's analysis of authoritarian socialism and communism.

Pointing out flaws, contradictions, and systematic shortcomings is so easy that I've lost a great deal of respect for it. Solutions are hard, and "magic happens here" is not a solution.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by cesarbs on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:52AM (#13454015)
> SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools.

WTF? What's their rationale?

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by tzs on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:08AM (#13455422)
They did not ban algebra in middle schools. They adopted a program that follows the Common Core math sequence, which moves about 40% of what used to be in 8th grade algebra to high school algebra. It also adds some things to middle school that used to be later, if at all, such as statistics and geometry.

The whole sequence, from kindergarten through high school, can be seen here: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by jessaustin on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:09PM (#13456298)
Very educational link. We're holding back the third of students who certainly should be "creating and rearranging equations" in 7th grade (frankly, who should have been doing so in 5th grade, if decent teachers had been available), for whose benefit? The middle third who will struggle to do so in 11th grade, or the other third who will never even attempt it?

Then we wonder why "STEM" employers are always trying to import labor from overseas. One doubts those workers are coming from schools that assume all children are equally talented.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by yoloswagins on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:01AM (#13454043)
While this article on [1] priceonomics covers the issue really well, the given reason is to ensure all kids enter highschool at the same level.

[1] https://priceonomics.com/why-did-san-francisco-schools-stop-...

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by kelnos on Sunday January 22, 2017 @04:58AM (#13454491)
That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. When I entered high school (central Maryland), I already had two years of algebra under my belt, which allowed me to jump ahead in HS, which then allowed me to jump ahead in college and take more advanced courses than someone who had to start from the beginning would have had time for.

This is ridiculously short-sighted.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by eva1984 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @06:07AM (#13454681)
Same. This is precisely the wrong way to approach equality: make everyone equally poor. Education is to educate people, why would SF's authority feel the need to regulate what and how much amount people should be educated?

This feels so authoritarian for a city that is branded for liberalism.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by StevePerkins on Sunday January 22, 2017 @09:40AM (#13455328)
While I myself am fairly left-of-center, I acknowledge that "equality of outcomes" is one of the darker undercurrents of liberal thought. There are an amazing number of people who would prefer that everyone be held back, rather than suffer the inequality of some getting further ahead than others.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by api on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:26PM (#13456060)
It's categorically easier to slow or dumb down something than to improve it. It takes exponentially more energy to fight the second law of thermodynamics.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by adrianN on Sunday January 22, 2017 @06:01AM (#13454654)
No child left behind means no child gets ahead.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by kelvin0 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @09:37AM (#13455313)
Yes, this makes me think of the idiotic laws in the Province of Quebec which don't allow parents to send their kids to English public schools. The only exception is if at least one parent did attends English public school (which is a minority of the population). Of course, sending your kids to a English private school is always possible ($$$).

So, you have a whole bunch of kids whose parents were immigrants and learned to speak french and go to english school (becoming bilingual, or better).

But, the white french majority of the population is mostly uni lingual because this opportunity of english immersion in school is not accessible to them publicly by law. Talk about no child getting ahead ... Learning english used to be seen as a cultural threat in French Quebec (long time ago), and trying to protect the French language ends up screwing most of the population stuck in 1 language with all the economic, financial and political ramifications of such ridiculous laws.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by kgwgk on Sunday January 22, 2017 @05:49AM (#13454628)
You're proving their point: you had an "unfair" advantage.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by cesarbs on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:20AM (#13454108)
Ugh. So sad. Essentially disincentivizing higher performing kids from getting ahead. Hope I never have to deal with that in our school district.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by vixen99 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @04:09AM (#13454372)
I somehow doubt they've banned it in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan or China.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by zeroer on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:56AM (#13454024)
> SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools.

Surely there are some kids who don't learn it in elementary school. Are they supposed to wait until high school?

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by spullara on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:00AM (#13454042)
My kids started algebra in elementary school as well. This is pathetic.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by Void_ on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:41AM (#13454156)
Haha, I'm from Central Europe and I competed in Maths Olympics since I was like 10. (Its a competition mostly in central/eastern europe).

This was around 2000 and we didnt have internet at home yet. So there was nothing better to do. Little worried about future generations.

But this is really pathetic. to ban algebra. I would leave the country.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by vostok on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:49AM (#13454179)
> But this is really pathetic. to ban algebra. I would leave the country.

If mathematics education at the pre-university level is a priority for you then I'm not sure that leaving the country is the best approach.

https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2016

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by throw123142 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @03:09AM (#13454216)
Elite results do not say much about average education. UK also scored high on olympiad, but average UK public school is much worse compared to Central Europe.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by adrianN on Sunday January 22, 2017 @06:05AM (#13454669)
It's a question about what you want to optimize for. I believe that societies need elites for progress. People who can really push things forward tend to be those with the highest innate ability who happen to have an education that pushes them to the limits of their ability. Optimizing schools to raise the minimum or the average education level seems to have the effect that the maximum suffers.

There are great arguments why you'd want to raise the average education level, but I think sacrificing the best minds to this cause is short-sighted.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by dmaldona on Sunday January 22, 2017 @03:21PM (#13457182)
But elite education is not attainable for all pocket sizes.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by Void_ on Monday January 23, 2017 @02:56AM (#13460608)
So China and US are at the top - but it's same as Canada/Russia having best ice hockey players. There is a huge pool to select from.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by krupan on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:15AM (#13455457)
Wait. Your kid is assigned a school across town and it's up to you to get them there (no school bus)? What if you just can't?
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by ransom1538 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:26AM (#13455511)
SF parent here.

The original idea was to mix up the student diversity. Poor kids would sometimes attend schools in expensive school distracts - Kids from expensive neighborhoods would attend poorer schools.

Hilariously not thought through. (just like rent control). All that actually happened was the rich kids yanked their children out of public school, the "in the middle parents" put their kids into catholic school (which is 1/5 the cost of private here). The poor kids then had to beg their parents to get across the city -- WHICH THE PARENTS could not. What a mess.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by equalarrow on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:49AM (#13455637)
Also, the rich folks get a place in the poorer neighborhoods (we've talked to people that just pay an additional rent and don't even move there) which then gets them their first choice.
Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by tlogan on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:57PM (#13456566)
Exactly.

And the poor kids are the one which end up suffering the most since they are mainly single parent families and/or they really do not have time driving kids around.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by equalarrow on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:42AM (#13455596)
Yes, the city got rid of school buses.

BUT, they still keep the different morning start times left over from bussing. Some schools start at 7:30, some 8:15, some 9 - these are all things you have to consider when picking your lottery list.

Just for the record, we picked 30 schools and spent oct & nov touring schools. The system is ridiculous and a failed experiment in my mind.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by Decade on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:59PM (#13457039)
Just suck it up. http://www.sfusd.edu/en/enroll-in-sfusd-schools/how-student-...

I see kids being transported by grandparents or carpooling with another parent who has space.

Re:San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children Gone? by robterrell on Sunday January 22, 2017 @03:08PM (#13457090)
> Don't get me started on Algebra. SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools

WTF? Got a link?