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Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by braveo on Friday January 13, 2017 @11:06AM (#13391824)
I've felt like that for a long time, and I think Obama is partially to blame for Trump getting elected.

When he made the compromise he did with Hilary during his first election I knew then he was going to be a political creature (and I was behind him).

I don't think Obama will be noteworthy in history outside of being the first black president. Obamacare will not be noteworthy either unless it transforms into something more meaningful.

If you think about it, the praise he gets so often is that he's a "classy guy", that should say something. 8 years in office and him being classy is the thing people think of most when considering him?

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by chaostheory on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:20PM (#13392528)
To be fair, the blame lies with our 2 party establishment system and the machines behind them. If you take closer looks at recent presidents: Clinton's admin was an overall continuation of GH Bush's administration policies. Obama's admin was a continuation of the Cheney's administration policies. I'm not sure it would really matter which establishment candidate was in office, since the end result is pretty much the same and only the rhetoric would be different. i.e. "impeachment is off the table" or "we're continuing to socialize Wall St's losses and privatize their gains even though over 90% of constituents of both parties are against it"

We haven't had a someone from outside since Carter or even Reagan. Regardless of how you feel about Trump (personally I don't like him) he was the first real alternative choice in decades.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by koheripbal on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:51PM (#13392803)
He's a complete random element. I literally have no idea what he's going to do. ...maybe that's a good thing? Everything that was "reliable" in the past let us down.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by braveo on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:58PM (#13392873)
I was ok with Trump winning and the random element is why. I wasn't really behind Trump, but I wasn't behind Hillary either.

I just think atleast Trump has a chance to do something different, Hillary wouldn't have.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by 464192002d7fe1c on Friday January 13, 2017 @09:12PM (#13396432)
I was entirely behind trump because of the random element.

I don't see him as old-school republican, and he's obviously not a democrat either. He's clearly his own man and I think the next 8 years are gonna be amazing.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by mememachine on Saturday January 14, 2017 @07:06AM (#13398051)
Its really cool to see people say this hear without the immense backlash im used to bassically everywhere else on the internet. Its not what i expected at all.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by Clamhead on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:33PM (#13394451)
With the people he's chosen so far to take on positions within the cabinet and various agencies, I have a really bad feeling about what's coming.

Wonder how all those people who believed him when he said he was going to "drain the swamp" feel now...

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by _mhr_ on Friday January 13, 2017 @09:53PM (#13396568)
Perhaps Trump is unpredictable... but the people he's choosing for his administration are not.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by chaostheory on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:18PM (#13393808)
I feel that poor people in the countryside figured out that no establishment candidate will really change anything like corruption or most policies for that matter. Only the faces and promises change. I wonder if and when the poor and middle class in urban areas will realize the same thing. Of course the danger is always that 'change' isn't always a good thing.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by brewdad on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:44PM (#13394527)
Exactly this. I have no doubt that Trump and the Republican controlled legislature (and soon judiciary) will bring significant changes to how our country operates. I have very strong doubts that these changes will be net beneficial to the lower and middle classes in this country.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by mememachine on Saturday January 14, 2017 @07:07AM (#13398056)
Why do you doubt this?
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by braveo on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:20PM (#13413542)
He/She doubts it because they're on the Trump Hate train, or is it the "dumb rural americans" train, I always forget.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by Steeeve on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:45PM (#13394536)
> I'm not sure it would really matter which establishment candidate was in office

Obama was the change candidate that didn't have a long history in congress. He gets labeled "establishment" by Bern victims out of propaganda. It's kind of funny how there's an anti-establishment candidate every 4 years that has a long history of being part of the establishment. At some point people have to start realizing that "anti-establishment candidate" means underdog who wants his small donations to add up.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by braveo on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:34PM (#13394893)
Obama was supposed to be the change candidate, it's what he ran on, but he didn't really do anything.

That's part of why Trump won. People have been wanting significant change for that long, yet we never got it.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by chaostheory on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:47PM (#13483790)
Obama may have sounded like he was an outsider in his first presidential race, but he's proven otherwise repeatedly over the years even during his first term. To be fair, Sanders would have probably been the same had he been elected.

Trump was the only major party choice in the last election though other choices of change were Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. To be clear, I am not advocating anyone; I'm just differentiating candidates who will uphold the status quo and others who won't.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:05PM (#13394239)
Give me a break. Obama saved the economy, saved the American car industry, and provided health care to 20 million people that didn't have it before. All while facing unbelievable obstruction from the GOP that never wanted to acknowledge he was actually President.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by dexterdog on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:21PM (#13394359)
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by e40 on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:54PM (#13395057)
Those things are obviously true, why would it be sarcasm?
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by dexterdog on Saturday January 14, 2017 @03:26PM (#13400366)
Not a single one of those things is true unless you mean it is true that they are his opinions.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:21PM (#13394800)
So you mock my comment instead of actually trying to respond to what I said?
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by brewdad on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:46PM (#13394543)
Do you thinks he's wrong?
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by markman on Sunday January 15, 2017 @08:45PM (#13407742)
I like Obama OK but saved the American car industry? He handed GM a check. Those funds didn't come out of his account. GM should have filed for bankruptcy, trimmed the fat and hunkered down in a leaner version of its former self.

It was definitely a tough decision to be faced with right out of the blocks. I respect his ability to make the tough calls but will taxpayers ever get their money back? Was anything done to see that they don't repeat down the road? Or did he basically slap them on the back and say carry on fellas.?

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Monday January 16, 2017 @09:47AM (#13410226)
I didn't think anyone assumed the money came out of his personal account, but it was his leadership that saved that industry, which I thought was clear by what I meant. Most people at the time were saying the auto industry should save themselves -- go through bankruptcy restructuring, etc.

I think you really exaggerate how "easy" this decision was to write a check -- it was not a popular decision at the time. That money had to come from Congress, remember, it isn't like Obama can write checks when he feels like it.

Totally reasonable to debate whether GM and others should have been given money, but most of that money was paid back and that industry is doing better now:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/sep/06/...

http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2012/oct/...

So I think it's valid to say his leadership prevented a domino collapse of that industry through those government loans and it didn't really cost the government much, if anything, except maybe setting a bad example that auto companies can depend on government help in the future?

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by braveo on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:22PM (#13413552)
Obama just continued the buyouts Bush started, so really you should be praising Bush for that, not Obama.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by e40 on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:53PM (#13395046)
I've felt like that for a long time, and I think Obama is partially to blame for Trump getting elected.

This has nothing to do with why Trump was elected. The rich and powerful have been marginalizing the middle class for a long time, through reduced taxes on the wealthy and austerity measures, both here in the US and in Europe. This widening gulf between the rich and the rest of us has pissed off the middle class and they voted for Trump out of anger at the establishment that got us here.

The masses have made their voices heard on not giving a crap about surveillance. It is never high on any poll or any article I've read about the rise of Trump.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by odbol_ on Friday January 13, 2017 @09:33PM (#13396515)
But Trump is also rich and powerful, so how does that make sense? He's no different, relatively.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by DefaultUserHN on Saturday January 14, 2017 @06:03PM (#13401139)
The difference is Trump reach out to the middle class and the lower class, while the other rich politicians don't give a shit.

Down-vote me all you want, but this is why Trump won. The sooner people accept that, the sooner we can move forward as a nation and rebuild this whole nation for every Americans.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by jdelphiki99 on Sunday January 15, 2017 @06:26PM (#13407087)
Or stop relying on politicians to change and start changing the system yourself. The organization I support is represent.us.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by webXL on Friday January 13, 2017 @11:24AM (#13392019)
Classy guy? Anyone is compared to the pres-elect. In his personal life perhaps. Every time he weighed in during an isolated racial incident before the public had all the information really did a disservice to the office. So much so that the current guy thinks it's fine to tweet about every little political gripe. Both have no problem being arrogant and divisive, so long as the base is happy. There's absolutely nothing classy about this cult of personality we're witnessing.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by alphonsegaston on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:06PM (#13392432)
This pattern of behavior on Trump's behalf far precedes anything by Obama. He was publicly advocating for the (innocent)Central Park 5 to be executed in 1989, before Obama held any elected office. Let's not surrender ourselves so far to ideological thinking that every partisan is the precursor of their opposition's faults.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by GVIrish on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:02PM (#13392404)
You honestly think that Obama's presidency is what made Trump think it's okay to tweet outrageous stuff and overreact to every perceived slight?
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by webXL on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:18PM (#13392515)
To some extent, yes. The base thinks it's fine, and the GP thinks Trump's win was a reaction to Obama. The media loves the tweeting, just like any time they could get Obama to weigh in on the latest racial controversy. So I guess to be fair, the reduction in presidential class is a real team effort!
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by csallen on Friday January 13, 2017 @01:00PM (#13392903)
Trump's tweets/statements are an order of magnitude more extreme and more frequent than anything we've ever seen. He's also a grown man who's responsible for his own actions, so blaming the media and blaming Obama seems quite partisan. Nobody is making him do anything.
Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by webXL on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:22PM (#13395293)
Nobody is making the media publish every tweet either. It's a symbiotic relationship.

> He's also a grown man who's responsible for his own actions, so blaming...

There's blame to go around. The electorate is ultimately responsible for putting this tweeting extremist in the White House, and if you compare Obama's statements and actions compared to past presidents, then you could say that the "class bar" was lowered enough to where Trump was electable.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by randcraw on Friday January 13, 2017 @12:22PM (#13392556)
Obama must be compared to other presidents as well as to the popular notion of what a black man would/should be like as President.

It's pointless to compare Obama to Trump because Trump is not yet a President. That job changes you, and if there is a god, it will change Trump too.

Re:Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out by boredprogrammer on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:39PM (#13394027)
There is no god.