News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by steveklabnik on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:02AM (#13349912)
Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by ktRolster on Sunday January 08, 2017 @05:25PM (#13352428)
Existential comics vaguely addresses the point: http://existentialcomics.com/philosopher/Roland_Barthes
Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by Retric on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:49AM (#13350184)
Which fails as it assumes text must have inherent meaning.

But, it lets people avoid criticism making it a popular standpoint.

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by jasode on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:26AM (#13350437)
>Which fails as it assumes text must have inherent meaning.

It doesn't assume that. It doesn't matter whether the text does or does not have inherent meaning. The essay's point is that the reader's judgement is just as valid as the writer's.

As an extreme example, the phrase "colorless green ideas sleep furiously"[1] can be interpreted by the reader as having meaning even though Noam Chomsky says it's a meaningless sentence. The author is not the final and not the only interpretation that's valid.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless_green_ideas_sleep_fu...

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by Retric on Sunday January 08, 2017 @04:34PM (#13352156)
With zero context your comment is without meaning. The only thing that separates it from a randomly generated markov chain is context.

Now, that does not mean the Author is infallible. But, discounting the authors intend is like ignoring a books sequels or even the second half of the text. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCeFbK-WEVE

In the end by discounting the author you are left with the lowest form of criticism, how did that make me feel. Which is not actually about the text, just the person writing.

Getting back to your phrase. Someone can assume line noise has meaning, but they are simply mistaken.

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by ahstilde on Monday January 09, 2017 @10:41AM (#13357077)
If the phrase "line noise" means something to me, why am I mistaken?
Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by Retric on Monday January 09, 2017 @10:43AM (#13357095)
Actual "line noise" not the phrase.
Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by bryanrasmussen on Monday January 09, 2017 @02:18AM (#13354613)
probably the ability of people to supply a meaning and agree on that meaning amongst themselves with relative ease might differentiate that comment from a randomly generated markov chain.
Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by Retric on Monday January 09, 2017 @10:39AM (#13357067)
That ability is based on context.

Ignoring the author's culture includes their language. Consider handing just that text to an alien along side a few thousand similar, but randomly generated texts.

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by bryanrasmussen on Monday January 09, 2017 @11:06AM (#13357309)
whoa wait, how did we get from ignoring the author's intent was ignoring all context to that means you are also ignoring the author's culture and ignoring the author's culture means ignoring their language to so the only way you can analyze a text without taking an author's intent into it is by handing it off to an alien with text mining tech?

I'm just saying the main context I'm seeing here is goalpost moving.

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by Retric on Monday January 09, 2017 @11:35AM (#13357556)
I have been consistent in my line of argument.

The written word is a medium of exchange not an independent artifact. If you read a recipe with "Add 3 cups of water." the author's intent is to tell you how to make something edible. So, it means poor 3 cups of water not take three 1 cup containers with water and add the containers and water to the mixture.

You can find examples like this in any lengthy text. But, death of the author is not about exploring that kind of grammatical wordplay it's about shielding the critic from reality. Thus, intent is both considered and ignored when it helps them.

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by EdHominem on Monday January 09, 2017 @01:13PM (#13358357)
> The essay's point is that the reader's judgement is just as valid as

But it's not. The question isn't "what does this mean to YOU", but "what did this mean to the author".

If I pick words randomly I can say with authority that there is no meaning in the words, and for all your understandings you can't change that the words were picked blindly, and thus without meaning.

> The author is not the final and not the only interpretation that's valid.

As to the author's intent, yes it is. Whatever intent there was is set down with the ink on paper. You come later, as a reader, so your interpretation is at most an addendum and not part of the original.

> [...] can be interpreted by the reader as having meaning even though Noam Chomsky says it's a meaningless sentence.

Sure. But an interpretation isn't a change in the nature of the actual thing. Even if I interpret an elephant as a butterfly it won't fly away.

This entire literary "discipline" (cough) is based on refusing to use an accurate description of the practice. Everyone agrees that a text can invoke various things - even unintended things - in various readers. That doesn't mean you're finding something inherent in the text but in the reader.

Re:Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized test... by Y201K on Sunday January 08, 2017 @03:03PM (#13351649)
That's not really the reason that phrase was thought up tho..