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Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by karyon on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:03PM (#13339168)
This sounds a bit like "my income is normal, and everyone above that is rich"-thinking that a lot of people have.(if there's a word for that i'd appreciate any hints :) ) i'd definitely consider engineers at google to be rich and don't see how another 200k makes that much of a difference. you think these execs are rich and don't see how another million makes a difference. and the execs consider billionaires to be rich and don't see how another billion makes a difference. it's just different scales, but who's actually right?

i think it's important to realise that the scale of income has an extreme range and we are already on the upper end and definitely rich by global standards. my personal opinion is that a majority of people living in the western world is actually rich and any complaints on salaries by these are just first world problems.

on a more constructive note, i think i've seen a study that said that higher salary actually does motivate more, but hits the point of diminishing returns at about (i think) 80k or 100k. I don't remember which country and whether it was $ or €, but that should give a sense of the rough order of magnitude.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by ChuckMcM on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:19PM (#13339323)
This is a good point. Everyone brings an idea of what "rich" means with them to the table.

My experience of being an engineer in the Bay Area, with three kids and a wife, has been that much of my annual salary has been consumed in costs which I felt I "had" to pay (mortgage, power, food, pre-school or school, clothes, saving for the future (401k)). And while I recognize that from an annual salary, property ownership, and actually having savings for retirement that made me "rich", a bit of extra money from bonuses would enable things like replacing an older car, or a family trip to Hawaii. Often times the bulk of any "extra" money would go into things like the savings fund for my kids college tuition.

For me, and my living situation, when I had the option of earning a bonus it would enable something in my life (saving for kids educations, a vacation trip) that would normally be outside of my financial profile. As a result I was motivated to compete for those bonuses. But had all those other things been covered vacationing every year in the Alps in my chalet, private jet service where ever I wanted to go etc. Extra money would have very little motivation for me. That is why I was really curious about how it motivated someone who had a multi-million dollar bonus program.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by rictic on Friday January 06, 2017 @06:03PM (#13341123)
Observations:

  1. Wealth is exponentially distributed.
  2. People tend to socialize with people in their rough income range.
  3. Expenses tend to grow to fill any budget.
  4. US society isn't very good at saving money, so most 
     people's budget for spending is their entire income.
Corollaries:

  1. People tend to know a few people who make >10x what they do, 
     a few people who make <1/10x what they do, 
     and a lot of people that make about what they do. 
  2. Normal expenses in a milieu are enough to use up a person's entire income.
  3. A person's idea of a luxury will tend towards something
     that would require >10x their income to be affordable.
Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by ChuckMcM on Friday January 06, 2017 @06:49PM (#13341404)
I like the list, in my case with #3 that wasn't true. Perhaps because my wife's mother was an accountant and so she was always attuned to the cost vs value equation or perhaps because my involvement in startups where I have always been attuned to the burn rate vs progress equation.

When I moved to the Bay Area from LA it was with the plan to get a house as quickly as I could, build up some equity in the house while working for a company with offices outside of the Bay Area and then transfer to one of those offices when we had kids so that using the equity in our California house we could greatly reduce our burn rate and in a lower cost of living location and support a one earner payroll. So paying attention to our burn rate as a family was critical to understanding what the payroll requirements would be on a single earner to maintain a lifestyle that didn't add stress to our lives.

And there are lots of things that incrementally add burn rate, communication charges, cable service, eating out, expensive to maintain cars, debt (especially credit card debt) etc. I also had aspirations for paying my kids college tuition (even though tuition was rising much faster than incomes or inflation) and being able to reach a point where I could develop enough passive income from investments/dividends/royalties/what have you that I would not be required charge an employer for my services in order to survive. Doing that math kind of make #4 a necessity, had to send money into the future (save) so that it could cover those costs which I wouldn't be able to cover out of a paycheck.

On your corollaries I find #1 is blown away by attending a church. It is especially true if you're volunteering for some of the community service activities at said church.

I certainly see #2 as a valid up to a point, per the $75K mention earlier. I remember working as a summer Intern and getting paid $200 a week and thinking "Wow, I can't even spend all the money I'm making!" but yes, you can always spend more without too much effort. During (and after) the 2009 banking crisis when people I knew were out of work and looking at being so for a "long" time a few of them were astonished at how much their monthly expenses has creeped up on them without thinking about it. One guy who was out of work for 18 months, once he got back to work he and his family made an explicit agreement to talk about 'incremental' costs before they took them on.

I also don't know about Corollary #3. Perhaps its a magnitude thing.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by rictic on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:45PM (#13354077)
Thanks for the detailed response :)

Corollary #3 is the one I feel the shakiest about. Interesting point about church. Childhood friends who went into careers with diverse income ranges, combined with a social scene outside my career does some of the same things for me, but I suspect church would do a yet better job in keeping me grounded.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by karyon on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:31PM (#13339407)
but what about maybe another yacht? some island? that limited edition lamborghini? oh you could collect art. use your bonus to get more of that. i think this "if i had this specific amount of money, then i'd have everything i could possibly desire" is unlikely to be true, you'll find more things to spend your money on.

another thought: you could donate all of it. the perfect money sink. it actually helps, and more of it helps better. so with an altruistic mind you can get motivated with that no matter on which salary level :)

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by ChuckMcM on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:44PM (#13339514)
Obviously I can't answer for anyone but myself, and I personally wouldn't be motivated to get a second yacht given how much work keeping one up is (not that I have one).

But how about you? Do you feel better about yourself if you have more art? or more cars? a bigger house? a staff? And if so, why does that make you feel better about yourself?

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by krylon on Friday January 06, 2017 @04:49PM (#13340564)
My experience - having gone through times where a week before the end of the month, I had to calculate very carefully what food I could buy so I could welcome the next month without an empty stomach - is that money itself does not make me happy, but having to worry about money is an exquisite torment.

Whoever said that money was an obedient servant but a cruel master pretty much nailed it.

There are, of course, plenty of things to worry about that money cannot solve. But having known the kind of worries brought on by too little money, I very much appreciate that none of my current worries are about money. Anything beyond that is nice to have, but I doubt anything could beat that feeling of not having to worry about money any longer.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by notyourwork on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:26PM (#13339885)
Personally I feel better when I worry less about money. Once I reached that point money became less of a motivator. Career promotions and title changes are now my primary motivator.

Sure my family with an extra 100k could do a handful of extra things in life but quality of life isn't going to change because of it.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by karyon on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:38PM (#13339967)
Personally I have no interest in such luxuries and hope I never will have. My goal is to keep my expenses to the (relatively low) level it is now, and save excess money for kids (which i don't have yet) or donate it. But I'm not there yet, I'll leave university in a few months, and what do I know what my future self will do.
Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by cymbalrush on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:06PM (#13339721)
It was $75K https://www.princeton.edu/~deaton/downloads/deaton_kahneman_...

Happiness does not grow linearly with salary and happiness is what you ultimately want to maximize. Income is only one input, and as it grows, it can actually complicate your life decreasing your happiness.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by zackkrida on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:16PM (#13339284)
This would be true except that there are fixed costs of living. Say Tim Cook was making three million less -- is he going to have to make lifestyle changes to spend 3 million less a year? No way.

A person making 60k a year losing 15% of their income? There's likely to be significant lifestyle changes.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by OJFord on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:25PM (#13339879)
Whether or not it necessitates a 'lifestyle change' depends on what you spend as a proportion of your income; not your income alone.

Furthermore, I think any financial advisor would advise that your 'lifestyle' not depend on one year's bonus!

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by karyon on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:24PM (#13339362)
I'm pretty sure that there are lifestyles that burn several millions per year, and my guess would be there are people living a happy life with less than 60k.

but of course it's true that the further you go up the scale, the more absurd it becomes to talk about serious comfort losses, and there's a point on the lower end where we're talking about actual poverty.

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by ChuckMcM on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:21PM (#13339847)
You might be hard pressed to construct one without getting a bit crazy. Most of the cost is going to be salaries of staff. At the extremes you have the Royal Family of England[1] ($43M) and Warren Buffet[2] (<.5M$).

[1] http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/mortgages-bills/how-much-...

[2] (warning self starting video) http://www.investopedia.com/articles/financialcareers/10/buf...

Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by hyperpape on Friday January 06, 2017 @04:38PM (#13340449)
The killer for entertainers and sports figures who blow through tons of money is keeping an entourage. There are probably tech figures who have one, but I don't know who they are.
Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by tobyjsullivan on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:22PM (#13339347)
I'm no expert but I think this would qualify as a projection bias.
Re:Apple cuts Tim Cook's pay 15% for missing sales goals by jrkelly on Friday January 06, 2017 @04:52PM (#13340588)
hedonic treadmill is close to word you are looking for.