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Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by askvictor on Friday January 06, 2017 @06:06AM (#13335452)
The article didn't talk about why? It's not as if the FM bandwidth is particularly valuable, being quite a low frequency. Unlike digital tv, there doesn't seem to be a particularly pressing reason to do this; if broadcasters are happy to keep broadcasting on FM, why stop them?
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by krkoch on Friday January 06, 2017 @06:53AM (#13335621)
It's because the infrastructure for FM is quite expensive to run. Because of all the fjords and valleys, you need many weak transmitters to avoid reflections. Also, because it's FM, they can't overlap in frequency.

With DAB, two time-delayed signals (either reflections or multiple towers transmitting the same data-fountain) will enhance the signal. This means that you can have fewer towers.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by winter_blue on Friday January 06, 2017 @08:08AM (#13335954)
> It's because the infrastructure for FM is quite expensive to run.

Won't the free market decide if it's too expensive to run? Or is even radio run by the state in Norway? Otherwise, why prohibit private companies from licensing & broadcasting FM radio? I mean the free market would decide stop to broadcasting when it's not profitable for them anymore.

Or is everything state-run in Norway? When I read "one member of the ruling coalition was scathing" and "MP from the Progress Party", I'm thinking, the state (and these MPs) shouldn't even be involved and thinking about this, and should leave it to the free market.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by wodenokoto on Friday January 06, 2017 @10:32AM (#13337014)
> Or is even radio run by the state in Norway?

As a Scandinavian, that is kinda fun to read. Of course Radio is state run. I still get surprised when I hear commercials on the privately owned stations. Private radio stations pretty much became a thing after I grew up and stopped listening to Radio.

When I was a kid, there were maybe one commercial station and they didn't air in my city. Commercial TV-station were still mostly broadcasting from England, due to the former state monopoly.

To many Scandinavians this is the most natural thing in the world.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by Raphmedia on Friday January 06, 2017 @11:40AM (#13337713)
This makes a lot more sense. The article came off as a ban on FM. It's actually only that the state will no longer put money into FM radio and infrastructure.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by gpvos on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:16PM (#13339804)
> The article came off as a ban on FM.

Interesting cultural difference; I would never have it interpreted it like that. I did wonder whether the commercial stations would also leave FM. A large country like Norway is likely to have only state broadcasting in its more remote areas, but additionally commercial broadcasters in the more populated regions.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by kwhitefoot on Saturday January 07, 2017 @11:26AM (#13344860)
As far as I can tell the commercial stations are leading the way.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by semi-extrinsic on Friday January 06, 2017 @10:48AM (#13337162)
> Commercial TV-station were still mostly broadcasting from England

Apart from TV2 I think they all still are? Mainly to avoid restrictions on content in commercials (Norwegian ban on online gambling commercials etc).

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by winter_blue on Saturday January 07, 2017 @12:46AM (#13342569)
> Commercial TV-station were still mostly broadcasting from England, due to the former state monopoly. To many Scandinavians this is the most natural thing in the world

A state monopoly is a restriction on freedom.

I'm fairly libertarian-leaning (on some issues), and what you're saying sounds to me like: "our lack of freedom is the most natural thing in the world".

It's like a slave who's lived in slavery all his life saying that "slavery is the most natural thing in the world". Doesn't matter if the slave master has treated the slave well and given him/her a comfortable life.

A law that prevents private television broadcasters from existing is a violation of the people's freedom to organize and form their own broadcast networks.

I find your acceptance and nonchalance at this honestly quite disturbing.

There's nothing natural in a state monopoly. It's a restriction on individual freedom, and it's as simple as that.

The thing I find unnatural is people not caring about their freedom, and willingly (and happily) surrendering it over to the state.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by wodenokoto on Saturday January 07, 2017 @05:08AM (#13343292)
Just to be clear, you are not "fairly" libertarian-leaning, you are very libertarian-leaning.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by cuchoi on Friday January 06, 2017 @08:49AM (#13336155)
Probably they have State infrastructure, maybe it was never profitable for businesses to invest in FM radios in that geography. They still CAN do it, but they won't.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by digi_owl on Friday January 06, 2017 @10:04AM (#13336747)
The infra used to be state operated, under a cooperation between NRK and Televerket (that in the 90s was turned into Telenor). In recent years NRK has transferred ownership of this to Telenor, and instead rents capacity from them.

So effectively it is privately owned and operated, under a "natural" monopoly.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by vidarh on Friday January 06, 2017 @10:48AM (#13337157)
With the caveat that Telenor is 54% owned by the Norwegian government (as of September 2016) [1], with a further 5% owned by Folketrygdfondet (government run social security fund), and a further 0.8% by DNB Asset Management, a subsidiary of the bank DNB ASA, which is again 34% owned by the Norwegian Ministry of Trade and Industry...

[1] https://www.telenor.com/investors/share-information/major-sh...

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by digi_owl on Friday January 06, 2017 @11:24AM (#13337525)
And? The government has declared itself to be a hands off shareholder...
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by vidarh on Friday January 06, 2017 @09:48PM (#13342129)
The government declares itself a lot of things until it declares itself something else. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that implying it's entirely privately owned is a bit misleading.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by digi_owl on Saturday January 07, 2017 @01:53AM (#13342733)
Given the number of debacles involving both Telenor and DNB mismanagement in recent years, one would have thought there would have been plenty of opportunities for the government as shareholder to take action. But so far none of that has materialized...
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by vidarh on Saturday January 07, 2017 @10:00AM (#13344398)
Remember that the government ownership of large chunks of DNB was a result of the bank crisis. And it's not the first time a Norwegian government has taken over banks and managed them. E.g. if you're old enough you might remember the bank takeovers in the late 80's, including Christiania Bank og Kreditkasse ASA - the same crisis also created DnB when DnC and Bergen Bank was forced to merge to survive.

Norwegian governments have decades of history of extensive interference in the markets (and today control ~1/3 of the value of the companies on the Oslo Stock Exchange)

Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily bad - it's generally worked well, and it's worked well probably largely because there certainly is tradition to stay hands off when possible. And during crises give them enough rope to either save themselves or hang themselves first - no politician wants to step into the middle of a scandal and risk being tainted...

At the same time influence can be subtle - because Telenor knows what is politically acceptable, they'd be highly unlikely to do anything that'd create political pressure to interfere. That can be as effective as direct control.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by gpvos on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:11PM (#13339769)
> Or is even radio run by the state in Norway?

Radio and TV have been run by the state (in some way or other) in most European countries from the 1920s until the 1980s. There were exceptions, most notably Luxembourg, which transmitted commercial radio to all its surrounding countries.

Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by nucleardog on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:05PM (#13337958)
In a lot of places like this the infrastructure wouldn't exist in the first place if not for the state, so it seems natural to me that the public should retain ownership after paying to develop it.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by w8rbt on Friday January 06, 2017 @09:25AM (#13336366)
There is only one reason. It's much more efficient. Engineers have to keep slicing things thinner and thinner to accommodate more and more people and needs. This impacts everything. Food, water, shelter, medications, transportation, communications, etc. Efficiency is king. It has to be.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by mrswag on Friday January 06, 2017 @09:51AM (#13336587)
FM works, and doesn't need any addition when you increase the number of listeners. I don't get it. Why throw away millions of perfectly fine radios?
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by w8rbt on Friday January 06, 2017 @10:59AM (#13337276)
Digital is more narrow and compact and allows more efficient use of the spectrum in general. More transmissions, different uses, sharing, freeing space up for other allocations, etc. All of that is resource/demand driven. More people is more demand.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by gpvos on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:23PM (#13339864)
While DAB transmission is more efficient than FM, the receivers are more complex and draw more power than FM receivers. I'm not sure the tradeoff is right in this case.
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by askvictor on Friday January 06, 2017 @03:29PM (#13339899)
I get that argument for tv transmission, but the FM bandwidth is tiny by comparison, so just doesn't seem to justify the switching pain (particularly regarding cars)
Re:Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio by Johnythree on Saturday January 07, 2017 @03:12AM (#13342955)
It's because FM broadcast is at a relatively low frequency that makes it valuable.

It has much better ability to penetrate into buildings, and through foliage, etc.