> I almost never pay the full price.

In the world of venture-capital subsidized transportation, no one ever pays full price [1].

[1] Can Uber Ever Deliver? Part Two: Understanding Uber’s Uncompetitive Costs - http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/can-uber-ever-deliver...

Also see Part 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13079023 / http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver...

Wow, those are some great articles with interesting points. That paints a very grim and brutal picture for Uber.

I didn't see any comment about Uber's main advantage tho, which is a shame...

1. being able to scale supply to meet demand.

In the traditional taxi model, the number of taxis and drivers are mostly fixed. during times of low demand more fixed costs brings more waste (cars driving around not making money) and in times of high demand represent lost profit (cars not capturing market potential).

taxi company's can try and scale 'fixed costs' better, but then they basically just become uber. Having drivers use their daily driving cars as taxi cars allows scaling of supply much much easier than having to use purpose built taxi cars.

The taxi company I used to drive for has embraced the "ride share" model to allow people to use their own cars. They now also lease plain cars that drivers can use with any of the various phone apps.

They also updated their own phone app to provide all the functionality of the upstarts, but with local staff to deal with problems.

Edit: http://www.taxiwars.org/electronic-taxi-dispatch-v1.0/

So, in many respects taxi companies are essentially becoming Uber in order to compete with Uber. Not shocking.

Cost is not the only factor. In fact, it's not even that important in terms of why Uber is trouncing taxis in terms of ridership. Uber has some very important UX advantages -- much lower wait times, integrated payment, fewer no-shows, ratings, less scummy drivers that people -- are willing to pay a premium for. Price is not the only variable in whether Uber can compete, your first link forgets that. UX is much more important IMO in terms of how shitty cabs are compared to Ubers.

Even only in regards to price, can uber compete on costs? your first link misses the bigger picture. Traditional taxi companies and Uber are efficient at different niches.

Traditional taxi companies (yellow cabs) are best at higher density areas due to being limited by the need for close-by depot, and 'base load' rides due to having a fixed supply of cars and not being able to dispatch new drivers as quickly.

Uber-models are good for all densities, and particularly areas with wide fluctuations in demand.

Taxis will need to adopt many Uber strategies in order to compete. They already have begun as you said. Taxi cabs sucked. Still do. And I would have no issue paying a premium to Uber to fuck it to the taxi cab companies. Especially when we are talking 10% difference in costs. UX dominates in terms of which ill choose to ride with.

Uber models are not going away, even if your first article thinks they will be slightly more expensive in certain scenarios and thus not able to compete at all, lol. What a leap in logic.

That said, will Uber be the long-term company that dominates? Maybe not. But their model will be.

Out of curiosity, why do you prefer Lyft?

Lyft allows for in-app tipping, and has a more humane contract with its drivers, as outlined in this Wired article: https://www.wired.com/2016/01/lyft-drivers-settle-suit-but-s...

Specifically, Lyft can only deactivate drivers for cause, and it has a clear appeals process through binding arbitration, for which Lyft foots the bill.

I'm not fond of clauses that require arbitration or which prohibit class action suits, but at least Lyft allows for and pays the costs of that arbitration.

Not parent, but years ago after hearing that Uber employees were sending fake Lyft requests I decided I didn't want to support a company that would engage in those types of shady practices

It used to seem to be the drivers of Lyft tended to be more doing it part time and fun to talk to, versus the much more business oriented and cold Uber community made up of former taxi drivers and truckers. I always assumed this had to do with the branding and the way they targeted potential drivers. I liked the Lyft feel a lot more. But lately they both seem to be a mix of both communities to me, so I don't know if that has changed or if it was even a real effect to begin with.

My experience has been that pretty much every Lyft driver I've met also drives for Uber.

I prefer Lyft because every driver I've spoken to who drives for both (which is almost all of them) says that Lyft treats them better.

Also the app is much nicer. The Uber app drives me crazy.

I am not the person you're replying to, but I used to switch back and forth between Lyft and Uber and use whichever was cheaper at the moment.

But Uber kept sending me drivers who were like 0.5 miles away or more, in SOMA at rush hour, and after the second time I waited ten minutes and then the driver canceled, I decided I was willing to pay a small surcharge to get a drive in less than 5 minutes and for it to, you know, actually happen.

I should probably try out Uber again to see if they've resolved their problems with driver supply. This was SOMA (5th & Bryant) at like 5:15-6:00pm, several times over the course of a month.

When you suspect there's going to be an issue with timeliness, just call both an Uber and a Lyft, and whichever one gets there first wins. ;)

The cancellation fee only kicks in after 5 minutes.

How terrible it would be to be a driver if everyone acted like this...

They aren't Uber and they exist.

Quite a compelling reason actually, to a first-order approximation.

https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-executive-considered-investig... http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-employees-stalked-celebr...

I used to slightly prefer Lyft but now greatly prefer Uber. In the beginning, Lyft only drivers were generally a bit more personable and Lyft Line passengers were generally always outside waiting and happy about sharing a ride.

I've mostly been taking Uber recently due to their low prices. However, last month Lyft had a Line promotion and I got to take about 60 rides. The vast majority of the drivers were clearly fired Uber drivers and the experience was way worse. Dirty cars, unable to follow navigation, bad driving, no English, and one driver was just a straight up weirdo. They are clearly passing anyone at the in person interview now. And they all had high ratings of 4.7-4.9. I've had similar bad experiences on Uber but they are much less frequent and the drivers were almost always rated 4.3-4.6.

Have talked to a number of drivers who seem to like Lyft a lot better than Uber.

For one thing, Lyft takes less of a cut and passes more to the driver.

More than one driver I'ved talked to complained that Uber was in the habit of delaying earned payments to drivers. Some complained that Uber was in the habit of under-paying and making drivers spend time to fight for money they've already earned. They do not seem to have similar experiences from Lyft.

In general, all else being equal (and the products are pretty close to equal), I'll prefer siding with the working stiff than multi-billion dollar multinationals.