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Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by SkyMarshal on Sunday November 13, 2016 @04:34AM (#12942565)
Regarding #2 I feel like Oracle is dropping the ball here with Java for the desktop. They need to provide a lightweight JVM tailored specifically for desktop apps and for bundling into a self-contained install package, so that the app doesn't have to confuse users by downloading the JVM separately. Just pack it all into a single .msi/.dmg/.dpkg/etc, download one file, install it, and you're good to go. The JVM should be local to that app only, not global to the whole OS.

The filesize may be a little bigger than native apps, and redundant if you install more than one of such apps, but in this day and age of high bandwidth and storage that's an acceptable tradeoff. I spent 2015 working on a Win/Mac/Linux app where this would have been the preferred solution, it was annoying that in 2016 it still doesn't exist and as a result we're getting janky Node.js-based platforms like Electron (http://electron.atom.io/) instead.

Qt and GTK are the only mature enough x-platform non-web-based options it seems, but Qt is not open source and GTK's look is dated.

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by gioele on Sunday November 13, 2016 @05:02AM (#12942631)
> Qt is not open source

Not only is Qt open source, it is also free software according to FSF. Core Qt and most modules are released under the LGPL, the rest under the GPL.

https://www.qt.io/licensing/

Qt even has a binding poison-pill promise that will make the code BSD-licensed should Qt (the company) stop releasing it. See https://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/Software_License_Agr... and https://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation....

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by jaysoncena on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:33AM (#12943225)
He's probably referring to QT5. If you're a for-profit business and using QT, most likely your software is closed-sourced which requires a commercial license.

I've worked with a team who develops a windows app which still uses QT4. They cannot migrate to QT5 since it requires a commercial license.

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by blub on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:38AM (#12943246)
Open source doesn't always mean that one can do whatever they want with it, nor does it mean gratis.

Still, LGPL libraries can be used for commercial software, this is a rather common use case.

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by SkyMarshal on Monday November 14, 2016 @03:16PM (#12952914)
Yes, we looked at Qt 1.5yrs ago, and we were a for-profit startup creating an MIT-licensed open source desktop software that we needed to add a UI to, for which we were considering Qt5 for specific features. It was a weird, edge case mix.
Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by skissane on Sunday November 13, 2016 @05:52AM (#12942764)
Have you looked at "Self-Contained Application Packaging"?

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/deplo...

(Disclaimer: I work for Oracle but I don't speak for them)

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by SkyMarshal on Monday November 14, 2016 @03:13PM (#12952892)
Thank you! Is this supported/automated well in any IDEs?
Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by skissane on Monday November 14, 2016 @03:45PM (#12953166)
NetBeans supports it - https://netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/native_pkg.html

(I can't comment on whether it is supported well since I've never used that part of NetBeans.)

Eclipse was apparently working on support for it at one point, but it looks to me like the work has stalled (just my impression from their bug database, I don't really know):

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=441274

https://wiki.eclipse.org/JDT_UI/Java_Packager

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by SkyMarshal on Monday November 14, 2016 @05:24PM (#12953910)
Thanks!
Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by pjmlp on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:44AM (#12943266)
I imagine you are out of touch with Java efforts.

Since Java 8, the JDK offers tooling to package applications, making it standard the way many third party bundlers used to work.

In Java 9 there is a linker, which will allow for an application personalised JRE, coupled with the startup code.

The biggest problem was that using Swing properly required a mix of programming and designer skills, which most didn't bother to learn.

At least on enterprise space of our customer base, we are still on Java and .NET for native applications, no Electron on sight.

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by mateuszf on Sunday November 13, 2016 @11:53PM (#12947651)
> The biggest problem was that using Swing properly required a mix of programming and designer skills, which most didn't bother to learn.

What about JavaFX 1/2? Do you have any information about its popularity and usefulness?

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by pjmlp on Monday November 14, 2016 @02:35AM (#12948119)
Sadly yes.

It is the Java version of XAML, and it is quite nice to use, but the uptake has been on the slow side. There were quite a few sessions at JavaONE 2016:

https://oracle.rainfocus.com/scripts/catalog/oow16.jsp?event...

Probably the place where it has seen more uptake has been in car infotainment systems, like by Volkswagen.

https://static.rainfocus.com/oracle/oow16/sess/1462531766187...

However our Java desktop native projects are still mostly Swing based, or make use of either Eclipse or Netbeans as desktop framework.

And of course there is the Android Java fork, which doesn't offer any JavaFX compatibility (some guys on the community are porting it though).

Re:Moving from Native Apps to Progressive Web Apps by SkyMarshal on Monday November 14, 2016 @02:57PM (#12952710)
I am a bit out of touch, last looked at this stuff in spring of 2015, thanks for the update, good to see!