It is not a criminal offense to be in the country unlawfully. It gets kind of complicated, but here is a useful resource: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigrat...

Thank you, that is an enlightening article. It does mention, however, that while unlawful presence is not a crime, you can still be deported for it.

There's no law that you have to be a citizen in this country.

As a (legal) immigrant, I have to remind you that there is legal immigration, and illegal, let's not confuse them.

Sure--but perhaps it's not the best investment in security to deal with the people who already got past the illegal part.

There's a long debate to be had about immigration in general. I'd contend, though, that it's in the public interest to look past things like immigration status in certain situations. For example, suppose we're vaccinating against an epidemic. In that case, you definitely don't want anyone to be afraid to come out and get their shot for any reason.

SF doesn't keep illegal immigrants safe from deportation. It says "in these circumstances, we think it's more important that you cooperate with the city than it is for us to try to deport you, so we're going to call a temporary truce".

While your comment sounds like it makes sense at face value, I find it naive and simplistic. I think the logical outcome of a policy like that is that you end up worse off.

We all unwittingly break many laws day. Living in the US is inherently illegal, even if you happen to be a citizen. My point is that there isn't some binary division between people that break the law and those that don't.

If businesses need to be immigration police, they'll just hire illegal immigrants under the table (moreso), and be more exploitive about it.

If people are afraid to talk to the police, they won't. This breeds gangs & protection rackets, which presumably you don't want, because they increase crime.

As these problems will become worse and worse, the more we will try to crack down on illegal immigration, intensifying said problems. The tragic irony is that the solution is the cause of the problem and it is part of a nasty feedback loop.

> Living in the US is inherently illegal, even if you happen to be a citizen

I am guessing you are implying that the White Europeans "stole" America from the Native Americans. By that notion, you can keep going a few 100 years back in history and you'll eventually end up with "Living in the ___ is inherently illegal, even if you happen to be a citizen" for every place in this earth except that place in Africa where the human is supposed to have evolved and migrated.

I don't think that is what he's saying, he's just referring to the number of laws you routinely break potentially without even realizing.

Yes, that's correct

Sorry, you guessed wrong

So there's NO FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between a serial killer and someone who jaywalked once in their lifetime?

Sure, they are violating the law, but I and many others would say that it's an unjust and harmful law.

Laws exist to serve people, not the other way around.

Regardless of whether it is just or not, it is still the law. If it is harmful, then it should be changed.

Illegal immigrants often do not enjoy all the rights and privileges citizens of the United States do. Many underpaid, overworked, and denied benefits.

If we need more people in this country, we need to make it easy for them to come, and we need to treat them right when they arrive.

Yep. The law should be changed so legal immigration is much easier.

I think taking advantage of social services without paying for them is pretty clearly unjust

And I don't think open borders are a good idea for america in its current state.

This is a total straw man. Illegal immigrants pay their taxes. The IRS doesn't care about their immigration status, but they do care about getting paid.