This attitude is why democrats have so much trouble understanding why republicans have so much support from working class voters. People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job.

It's about identity. Free money can keep you fed but it can't give you a sense of pride and self worth.

> People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job.

That right there is pretty much the issue. We could take china's approach and specifically limit the use of heavy equipment to X hours per day, requiring everything else to be done by hand. But that's stupid pointless makework, that takes longer and costs more.

With free money, maybe some people learn a trade, start a band, write a book. Send people to school and maybe we get some value back in 5-10 years.

I understand that people want to take a job on the line at the plant, just like dad did. Well, tough. The world isn't like that anymore.

Policies might "encourage" Apple to do it's manufacturing in the U.S. A U.S. iphone factory would employ about 15 people. the security team that keeps people away from the machines.

The way to stop feeling useless is to stop being useless. Don't want money to help figure out what you can do? Well, ok, best of luck.

edit

This may come off as mean, bitter, heartless, uncaring, vile , reprehensible and whatever other adjectives you want to throw in.

Small towns are dying because there's not much reason to be there. We can subsidize them in a bunch of ways, but it's still just welfare.

The obvious rebuttal to this is that those small towns now control the government. You want progressive policies? Well, tough.

Rural areas are coping with exploding rates of meth, heroin, and opioid abuse, and a lot of that is directly caused by the absolutely shit quality of life they all have.

You're far from the first liberal to regard rural people with contempt, and that's a big part of why we now have President Trump to contend with.

Maybe it's time to start taking other people's problems a little more seriously.

You're right. I grew up in a very small rural town. I have a tendency to not take them seriously. The problem for me is that I've never heard any other group of people spew so much hate and bigotry as people in that small town. The treatment of minorities in that town was heartbreaking. The way I was treated for not blindly accepting the christian faith was terrible. I used to hide physics book under my bed so they would not be taken from me and thrown away.

As an adult, I find it really difficult to care about their problems at all. However, the fact is, unless we do show compassion and take their issues seriously, the current situation will only get worse.

I learned to drive a tractor when i was about 10 years old, and it was a blast. Nearest neighbors were a mile away. Going to the rodeo was a big deal. It was really great.

But the writing was on the wall back then. There's like 4 jobs in the country where horseback riding is useful. It's nothing more than an expensive hobby for the well off.

> The obvious rebuttal to this is that those small towns now control the government.

No, not even remotely. A billionaire city slicker controls the government.

> Maybe it's time to start taking other people's problems a little more seriously.

Eh, maybe. I don't think we need to make it so damn hard for people to get ahead, or even have a chance. But, of course, my guy lost. But maybe not. No election coming up, all there is for me to do is figure out how big my tax cut is going to be, and figure out where that goes in the IRA.

No tariff is going to make my home town thrive. There are no jobs there.

I can't help but think of the duke:

Devlin: I don't know what to say. Never begged before. Turned my stomach. I suppose I should have been grateful that you gave me the job.

McLintock: Gave? Boy, you've got it all wrong. I don't give jobs I hire men.

Drago: You intend to give this man a full day's work, don'tcha boy?

Devlin Warren: You mean you're still hirin' me? Well, yes, sir, I certainly deliver a fair day's work.

McLintock: And for that I'll pay you a fair day's wage. You won't give me anything and I won't give you anything. We both hold up our heads.

But when i tell old friends from high school to come where the work is, they just shake their heads.

My friends that are too fucking hard headed to figure out something better than drinking and bellyaching. Go back to school? Learn a new trade? fuck no.

I'll help people learn to be useful, but i'm not interested in paying someone to make saddles. Sure, it's fun. Turns out they're just not good enough at it to earn a living doing it. Do fucking something else, and make saddles as a fucking hobby. Be a goddamn grownup.

As a, as you put it, "liberal that regards rural people with contempt", i think these three things would improve things for lots of people.

1. Pay police well. Like, double it, and hold police to very high standards. 2. Pay teachers well. Like, double it, and hold teachers to very high standards. 3. Tie tax rates for businesses to local economies. The worse the economy, the bigger the break, the smaller the business, the bigger the break.

But again, i'm a contemptuous liberal that just got told i'm full of shit.

So, seriously, what the fuck am i supposed to do? "take problems seriously?" that's a bullshit rhetorical jab that contains zero useful information.

i think you are taking their problems seriously :) If you had posted this comment earlier i don't think he would have saidt hat.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but Trump has no chance of helping those workers, except by bussing them to New York to polish his acres of marble and glass.

But there you go.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going. And they vote for someone who is going to give them a job.

"Tough" doesn't (didn't) cut it.

Then give them jobs in the parks service, pay them to clean up old mine sites, pay them to plant trees, pay them to install fiber optics lines, or anything.

But people want to cut funds to those departments in America right ?

Probably. Maybe we should label superfund sites a "terrorist plot," and see if that gets them cleaned up.

This creates an intractable problem when their job is deemed too dangerous for a civilization to allow to continue.

If someone's job is their identity, and their job harms others, what are some other possible solutions? (Retraining runs into similar issues as you mentioned -- coal miners don't want to become keyboard jockeys, they want their sense of pride and self worth for doing the profession they trained for.)

Actually, it seems like a lot of them aren't opposed to keyboard jockeying. [1]

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal...

Not sure about the politics, but yes. And as someone commented below, we're going to have to find socially useful jobs for another swath of blue-collar men soon, when all the trucks go automonomous. This is a BIG problem - any ideas?

Ding ding ding ding. A lot of people don't want to be treated like adult children.

Then they may accept their fate of poverty and most likely an early death if they prefer not to accept society's helping hand when their job is obsolete. That does not mean the offer should not be there for them.

Of course they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

They just want to grandstand about it.

Subsidize tourism and encourage people from rural populations to be in contact with people from metropolitan areas.

>People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job.

People LOVE welfare as long as you don't call it welfare or give it to someone else. It's those other people that don't deserve it.

Then give them jobs. Plenty of old coal mining sites need to be cleaned up.

  and it is laughable that we can't afford to take care of those no longer employed within the economy

But that would shift power away from entrenched industries. Big money is lazy.

Why not, instead of putting them on Social Security, subsidize the installation of solar and wind generation facilities in areas that previously were economically driven by coal mining, and then provide training programs so those displaced miners instead are attractive to employers as workers that can manage and maintain the new electricity generation networks? A single coal-fired power plant can generate far more electricity than a single solar panel or wind turbine, and keeping those up and running will need a lot more hands.

Average coal miner's salary is a lot more than $32k/year.

e: the salary info wasn't in the comment when I replied.

Average coal miner salary is ~$22/hr, or ~$42k/year.

Social security safety net is better than 0, which is where coal is going to regardless, no matter how much we attempt to prop it up. Can't compete against fuels with zero marginal cost. Every coal company in the US is currently bankrupt.

I am open to better ideas if you have them. My proposal removes coal-fired generation and provides for workers at the same time, affordably.

We're talking a difference of $10k/year, that's a lot of money. And you're speaking of miners at the lowest rungs of the ladder: what of those more experienced, or the geologists and mining engineers who are paid 2--3 times more?

Your solution doesn't provide for the workers. I'm sure you're sincere, but a handout from the government is not perceived as a substitute for challenging, meaningful, and respectable work. Basic income proposals don't generally seem to consider pride, other than what I see as nebulous handwaving about how one would be free to pursue their dreams. What dreams are there in coal country when there is no coal? I don't see BI alone as helping to sustain or resurrect a community and associated way of life whose primary industry is one you've eliminated.

I haven't figured out how to make myself happy in life; creating a societal structure that allows for everyone to find what makes them happy is far beyond my limited capabilities. Ensuring that people don't go hungry or die from exposure is within my grasp.

you bull-shiting from your arm chair is your attempt to solve this issue of pride meaningfulness in life. this is pretty meta, but are you really lacking this much self-awareness? Workers want to do productive meaningful work. This is why many flock to startups with all its risk. People want interesting work and yet you do not seem to understand that.

You make good points. We do have to figure out ways to transition out of a particular industry. Open questions (not aimed at parent): Have transitions like these been made successfully in the past? Are there particularly bad examples of what we should make sure we avoid (Detroit)? We can't be the first to have thought about this. Anyone know of studies/histories we can refer to?

Next up: truck drivers.

But in a society where personal identity is increasingly at risk, you can't pay for that. It's fiction, but you end up with at least a few Boyd Crowder characters from "Justified."

FWIW, this is how Trump voters are made. And at least in the U.S., the coal industry looks done.