Wow these look god awful but they weight a lot less than the MBPs so that's a huge selling point for me. Thanks for mentioning these.

However, after all those shady stuff they did, makes it hard to go for Lenovo.

I used to love Lenovo - I had a T40, T60, T420s, T440, and a T460. Each one, in the first year I had them, were awful with Linux, but over time they got better. Under Linux, no Lenovo matched the battery life, screen quality, build quality, or touchpad quality of my MacBook Pro. They were usable, but nowhere near as intuitive to use as my MBP. Example: Sleep, on the Lenovos w/ Linux, is a crapshoot. There seemed to be a 50% chance that any time I pulled the Lenovo out of my bag that it would be dead because it never really slept. I never had this problem with any Mac laptop. Battery life, which is a similar situation, also can't be compared. I remember once having to crawl around on the floor under a table at a client site because my Lenovo was dying mid-presentation. All the clients laughed because they had Macs, and only plugged in at night to charge.

Windows is a non-starter for me, and even now Linux is just not well supported enough for a daily driver laptop. I'll gladly remap caps lock to avoid the certain bug-opening that comes with a Linux laptop.

Counterpoint, I think they look great! They're boxy but keep a rectangular profile. They keyboard feels smooth with just enough resistance and plenty of tactile feedback. The matte black isn't showy but it gets out of your way during use.

They're plastic but personally, and in my office, we've actually found them to be more durable and easier to repair. Sure, they're different aesthetics but they both look and feel solid.

They're basically 'no-frills' laptops made by people with very different ideas about what the frills are.

unfortunately most enterprise/workstation grade notebooks from Lenovo are ugly, talking from my experience though they are workhorses and can take a lot of misuse before anything breaks. their consumer models tend to have better aesthetics.

Respectfully, this is difference between you and me. I prefer 100% reliability when I am buying something for working. I cannot accept jittery trackpoint or wireless driver problem or low battery life.

This is what makes Mac perfect laptop in comparison to what you mentioned.

I do see what you saying , but I don't agree with you.

In turn, I can see the value in having it "just work". In my case, I'm satisfied with "I can make it work without doing too much". So if I have to put in an additional parameter in a config file that isn't a big deal for me. But if I need to do something like trace down a binary-only module that breaks on kernel updates, just to get a wifi card going, that is where I personally draw the line.

But on the other hand, I like having enough choice. And, I like the ability to customize after purchase (that is, buy with lower amount of ram, and upgrade it in a year or two). So it is just a matter of where each person puts their priorities (too bad we can't all have everything, at least not yet).

There is no one Lenovo's laptop on the market with Thunderbolt 3 support, so not an option at all.

Not one?

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p50/

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/

http://shop.lenovo.com/lv/lv/laptops/ideapad/y900-series/y90...

I was wrong, I have never considered heavy P/Y series.